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Old 01-03-2009, 04:32 AM
Ray Parrish
 
Default Processor Scaling

Derek Broughton wrote:
>>
>> I'm not worried about the power bill, and this isn't a laptop.
>>
>
> Damn. That's the problem with North America. Power is so cheap, nobody
> cares.
>
By the way, just so you know, I conserve power by leaving the heat off
far into the cold season, and instead sit around the house with my parka
on to keep warm. I also use the efficient type light bulbs, and do many
other things to use less power. When it comes to the computer however,
I'm not worried about the cpu which uses about 10% of the power one of
my light bulbs use.

Later, Ray Parrish

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Old 01-03-2009, 01:01 PM
Smoot Carl-Mitchell
 
Default Processor Scaling

On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 21:09 -0800, Ray Parrish wrote:
> Smoot Carl-Mitchell wrote:
> > On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 04:29 +0000, Anthony M. Rasat wrote:
> >
> >
> >> sudo cpufreq-selector -g performance
> >>
> >
> > If you are running the Gnome desktop, you can set the processor speed in
> > the CPU frequency scaling applet. Just left click on the applet after
> > you put it in a panel.
> >
> Not unless you run another command first to tell the applet it has root
> privileges. I followed a link to instructions for that from someone in
> this thread, and now have been able to use the applet to set my cpu to
> 2000mhz, which is near it's top speed of 2100 mhz, and things are
> responding much more quickly now.

Interesting. I did not have to do that on my desktop. The applet
worked out of the box for me.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:50 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Processor Scaling

Ray Parrish wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:

>> Damn. That's the problem with North America. Power is so cheap, nobody
>> cares.
>>
> Well, we're talking about something that runs on 5 volts, I don't think
> it's going to use enough extra poower to affect anything much...

Sheesh. Just try watching your power meter when you are certain you have
everything in the house turned off. I would bet your desktop machine is
running about 100W when not even under load. If you run 24/7 your computer
is using more electricity than my whole house.

>>> I want
>>> the most erformance I can get at all times, so I now have it set to
>>> always run at 2gig.
>>>
>>
>> And if your processor is now running at 20% instead of 50%, how exactly
>> have you improved performance?
>>
>>
> What the hell are you talking about? I'm now running the processor at
> 100%, not 20%, where did you get that number from?

Load. You're running it at its maximum _frequency_, but the processor
itself will be idle some percentage of the time. aiui, a processor running
at 50% load and 100% frequency, is using more power than one at 100% load
and 50% frequency.

> That was the problem, when I put a load on it, it would stay at half
> speed instead of kicking up to full speed when it was needed.

Then what you really need to figure out is why it isn't scaling properly.



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Old 01-03-2009, 04:54 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Processor Scaling

Rashkae wrote:

> Ray Parrish wrote:
>
>>
>> Someone else in this thread expressed concern over cpu temperature. I
>> just finished a four hour virus scan of my Windows drive, and during the
>> entire scan the cpu stayed at 107 F, and now is at 104 F, and it never
>> seems to get any hotter than that.
>>
>
> The difference in Power from CPU running idle at full Mhz and running
> idle at half Mhz (ie, with CPU scaling enabled) should be in the
> neighborhood of 5 to 10 watts. Significant only if multiplied by dozens
> or hundreds of computers.

But of course it isn't multiplied by dozens or hundreds - it's multiplied by
many MILLIONS. And as anyone who has lived in an off-grid home can attest, 5
or 10 watts matters.


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Old 01-03-2009, 07:37 PM
Rashkae
 
Default Processor Scaling

Derek Broughton wrote:

>
> Load. You're running it at its maximum _frequency_, but the processor
> itself will be idle some percentage of the time. aiui, a processor running
> at 50% load and 100% frequency, is using more power than one at 100% load
> and 50% frequency.

You got data to back that up Derek? When I tested my PC (Core 2 Duo)
with a power meter, there was only 5W difference when I changed my CPU
frequency from scaled to full frequency when the cpu was idle. However,
putting the cpu under load would spike the power by over 15W. (I did
not, however, try to force the CPU at full load / half frequency)

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Old 01-03-2009, 09:16 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Processor Scaling

Rashkae wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:
>
>>
>> Load. You're running it at its maximum _frequency_, but the processor
>> itself will be idle some percentage of the time. aiui, a processor
>> running at 50% load and 100% frequency, is using more power than one at
>> 100% load and 50% frequency.
>
> You got data to back that up Derek?

Not a bit - as I said, that's my understanding... but I was wrong once. :-)

> When I tested my PC (Core 2 Duo)
> with a power meter, there was only 5W difference when I changed my CPU
> frequency from scaled to full frequency when the cpu was idle. However,
> putting the cpu under load would spike the power by over 15W. (I did
> not, however, try to force the CPU at full load / half frequency)

Yeah, that's not telling you (or me) an awful lot.

You'd need to measure both frequency and load while doing the same tasks -
and you probably need to try to use a task that tasks the CPU but not to the
limit (because if it's using 80% cpu at full frequency, and 100% at 50%
frequency, you don't know just how high it _could_ have gone). And you'd
also want to know if the task took longer at the lower frequency.



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Old 01-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Markus Hitter
 
Default Processor Scaling

Am 03.01.2009 um 06:32 schrieb Ray Parrish:

> When it comes to the computer however, I'm not worried about the
> cpu which uses about 10% of the power one of my light bulbs use.

You have interesting light bulbs, then. Commodity desktop PCs take at
least 100 Watts. High performance PCs can take 500 Watts or more.

Independently from your light bulbs however, there's really no reason
to run a higher clock frequency while the PC is idle. Actually, if
you even notice a difference between higher frequency on demand and
higher frequency all the time there's likely something wrong with
frequency ramping and you should fix this instead of letting your
processor run in circles 2000 million times a second all the time.

Fixing things helps millions of others as well, so there can be a
really noticeable power saving.


MarKus

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
http://www.jump-ing.de/





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Old 01-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Ray Parrish
 
Default Processor Scaling

Markus Hitter wrote:
> Am 03.01.2009 um 06:32 schrieb Ray Parrish:
>
>
>> When it comes to the computer however, I'm not worried about the
>> cpu which uses about 10% of the power one of my light bulbs use.
>>
>
> You have interesting light bulbs, then. Commodity desktop PCs take at
> least 100 Watts. High performance PCs can take 500 Watts or more.
>
> Independently from your light bulbs however, there's really no reason
> to run a higher clock frequency while the PC is idle. Actually, if
> you even notice a difference between higher frequency on demand and
> higher frequency all the time there's likely something wrong with
> frequency ramping and you should fix this instead of letting your
> processor run in circles 2000 million times a second all the time.
>
> Fixing things helps millions of others as well, so there can be a
> really noticeable power saving.
>
>
> MarKus
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
> http://www.jump-ing.de/
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well, as I said above I'm not worried about the extra power the "cpu"
not the whole desktop takes... The cpu is just a small chip inside the
box, and runs on 5 volts. Reading comprehension my friend...

Later, Ray Parrish

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Old 01-05-2009, 12:32 AM
Ray Parrish
 
Default Processor Scaling

Markus Hitter wrote:
> Am 03.01.2009 um 06:32 schrieb Ray Parrish:
>
>
>> When it comes to the computer however, I'm not worried about the
>> cpu which uses about 10% of the power one of my light bulbs use.
>>
>
> You have interesting light bulbs, then. Commodity desktop PCs take at
> least 100 Watts. High performance PCs can take 500 Watts or more.
>
> Independently from your light bulbs however, there's really no reason
> to run a higher clock frequency while the PC is idle. Actually, if
> you even notice a difference between higher frequency on demand and
> higher frequency all the time there's likely something wrong with
> frequency ramping and you should fix this instead of letting your
> processor run in circles 2000 million times a second all the time.
>
> Fixing things helps millions of others as well, so there can be a
> really noticeable power saving.
>
>
> MarKus
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
> http://www.jump-ing.de/
>
>
>
>
>
>
And, as to the processor running in circles all the time... it
doesn't... it only runs when not idle, as in only when it's actually
doing something.

Later, Ray Parrish

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<http://www.rayslinks.com/Troubleshooting%20and%20fixing%20Windows.html>
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:47 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Processor Scaling

Markus Hitter wrote:

>
> Am 03.01.2009 um 06:32 schrieb Ray Parrish:
>
>> When it comes to the computer however, I'm not worried about the
>> cpu which uses about 10% of the power one of my light bulbs use.
>
> You have interesting light bulbs, then. Commodity desktop PCs take at
> least 100 Watts. High performance PCs can take 500 Watts or more.

No, he's talking about the CPU itself, not the whole machine, but you still have a point. A significant part of the power used by a PC is spent running
the fans, so just because the CPU is only using 10W (or whatever) doesn't
mean that your actual power consumption is 10W. And the more power your CPU is drawing, the more often the fan has to run.

> Fixing things helps millions of others as well, so there can be a
> really noticeable power saving.

Yep.


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