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Old 12-15-2008, 09:01 PM
Martin McCormick
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

I wanted to test the latest ubuntu live CD on a Dell
Enspiron laptop which dates back to about 2001 and has 256 megs
of RAM so it should do the job just fine. It used to run
Windows-XP and then I installed a Linux distribution called
oralux which is now rather outdated and no longer supported, but
works in screen reader mode.

The steps for booting ubuntu live are:

Boot and hit Enter at the grub prompt to select English.
Hit F5 for Accessibility.
Hit 3 to go directly to the Screen Reader header and then Enter twice.

I had my wife who can see verify that I was doing all
these things.

What happens is about 20 minutes of frantic CDROM I/O
or, in this case, I as the system loads lots of stuff from the
CDROM.

One does hear the little drum flourish during the drive
activity and, some seconds later, the long musical chord as
ubuntu comes up. There is yet more CDROM activity and then it
all falls silent. The screen is mostly black with a small blue
line near the top. If one touches the mouse pad which is on this
laptop, there are small flashes on the screen and the CDROM
wakes up.

No voice, however and no video.

I did try a suggestion of hitting Alt-F2 which provoked
another spasm from the CDROM drive, but no audio.

I tried to use the dmesg in the oralux distribution to
get a report of the audio and video devices, but it doesn't
produce that sort of output like I get on a full Debian system
so I am not sure what it's got.

If there are better ways to get a list of hardware out,
it may be possible to provide boot options to force what it
can't seem to figure out on its own.

I don't think it is very far away from booting, but
something is getting missed.

This is not my only method for computer access so I am
not in an emergency. I am just trying to upgrade to the 21ST
century before some of my old stuff really bites the dust.

Thanks for any ideas.



Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK
Systems Engineer
OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group

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Old 12-15-2008, 09:20 PM
"Karl F. Larsen"
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

Martin McCormick wrote:
> I wanted to test the latest ubuntu live CD on a Dell
> Enspiron laptop which dates back to about 2001 and has 256 megs
> of RAM so it should do the job just fine. It used to run
> Windows-XP and then I installed a Linux distribution called
> oralux which is now rather outdated and no longer supported, but
> works in screen reader mode.
>
> The steps for booting ubuntu live are:
>
> Boot and hit Enter at the grub prompt to select English.
> Hit F5 for Accessibility.
> Hit 3 to go directly to the Screen Reader header and then Enter twice.
>
> I had my wife who can see verify that I was doing all
> these things.
>
> What happens is about 20 minutes of frantic CDROM I/O
> or, in this case, I as the system loads lots of stuff from the
> CDROM.
>
> One does hear the little drum flourish during the drive
> activity and, some seconds later, the long musical chord as
> ubuntu comes up. There is yet more CDROM activity and then it
> all falls silent. The screen is mostly black with a small blue
> line near the top. If one touches the mouse pad which is on this
> laptop, there are small flashes on the screen and the CDROM
> wakes up.
>
> No voice, however and no video.
>
> I did try a suggestion of hitting Alt-F2 which provoked
> another spasm from the CDROM drive, but no audio.
>
> I tried to use the dmesg in the oralux distribution to
> get a report of the audio and video devices, but it doesn't
> produce that sort of output like I get on a full Debian system
> so I am not sure what it's got.
>
> If there are better ways to get a list of hardware out,
> it may be possible to provide boot options to force what it
> can't seem to figure out on its own.
>
> I don't think it is very far away from booting, but
> something is getting missed.
>
> This is not my only method for computer access so I am
> not in an emergency. I am just trying to upgrade to the 21ST
> century before some of my old stuff really bites the dust.
>
> Thanks for any ideas.
>
>
>
> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK
> Systems Engineer
> OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group
>
>
256K of Ram is really a bit to small and I expect that is your
problem. You can verify this by selecting the Text mode of installing
and see if that works. Not sure how well Ubuntu will run with the small
RAM...

Karl


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Old 12-16-2008, 01:11 AM
NoOp
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On 12/15/2008 02:01 PM, Martin McCormick wrote:
[snip]
>
> This is not my only method for computer access so I am
> not in an emergency. I am just trying to upgrade to the 21ST
> century before some of my old stuff really bites the dust.
>
> Thanks for any ideas.

First off, you have issues with the graphics & 8.10 (is it 8.10 that you
are testing with - if not, you'll need to ensure that it is as 256MB
won't work with the liveCD and 8.04).

I don't have a liveCD of 8.10 (Intrepid) as I use the Alternate CD to
install. I do however have a 8.04.1 (Hardy) liveCD so I tested on an old
IBM Thinkpad A21M with 384Mbytes of memory. Unfortunately I don't think
that you can try this with your system as I think that Hardy requires
384MB for the liveCD (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/804).

As one would expect, it takes awhile for the system to boot into Ubuntu
due to the limited memory (about 2 minutes or so), but the desktop comes
up just fine. Sound is working as I get the standard Ubuntu startup
sound. Unfortunately, I get no 'Screen Reader' sound when selecting
'Applications' or other menus. Ditto for
Applications|Accessories|Terminal - the terminal window that brings up a
warning 'To run a command... etc) so I should hear that being 'read' to me.

I checked System|Assistive Technologies' (I'm sighted & used the mouse)
and 'Enable assistive technologies' is prechecked, so I'm assuming that
they 'think' they are working. I even checked to make sure that Orca is
checked - it is and is checked to 'Run at start'. So I check sound:
System|Preferences|Sound and do 'Test' on each - they are all working as
expected - I even had to turn the sound down some as it was too loud
(for me).

Next stop: Terminal & check to see if Orca is actually running - it isn't.

Next I enter Alt-F2 and 'orca' - next think I know the laptop is talking
to me! Again, I had to turn down the sound :-)

Conclusion; for some reason (at least on Hardy), Orca is not actually
starting properly even when you go through the proper steps (F5, select
'Screen Reader'). So, my guess it that there is probably a bug filed for
it on launchpad somewhere.

Apologies for posting such a long reply; hopefully your wife can read so
that you don't have to listen to a synthesizer to get all of it.

Perhaps someone else on the list can confirm with 8.10?

Further, you'll still need to resolve the graphics issues first. Your
wife won't be able to assist you if the graphics aren't working. Then
again, you might try Alt-F2 and 'orca' first just to see if it will talk
to you in 8.10.

My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install 8.04
(Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test laptop that only
has 128Mb).

Accessibility guide is here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility

Bug reports are here:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca/+bugs

Most relevent bug report that I can find regarding your issue is here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca/+bug/258508
[gnome-orca not speech with Intrepid Alpha4 release]
which doesn't look promising at all as nobody has provide a response at
all since it was filed several months ago.



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Old 12-16-2008, 01:29 AM
NoOp
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On 12/15/2008 06:11 PM, NoOp wrote:

>
> My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install 8.04
> (Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test laptop that only
> has 128Mb).

Added note: just testing this, as a 'sighted' person definitely outlines
what blind or poor sighted folks have to go through to work with
computers. I wanted to say "really opened my eyes" but that would be a
very poor choice of words :-(

So, can someone on the list also check with an 8.10 liveCD and see if
the Orca Screen Reader works properly without having to use the 'Alt-F2
orca' to get it started, and post back? Thanks.


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Old 12-16-2008, 02:14 AM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:29:54 -0800
NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On 12/15/2008 06:11 PM, NoOp wrote:
>
> >
> > My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install 8.04
> > (Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test laptop that
> > only has 128Mb).
>
> Added note: just testing this, as a 'sighted' person definitely
> outlines what blind or poor sighted folks have to go through to work
> with computers. I wanted to say "really opened my eyes" but that
> would be a very poor choice of words :-(
>
> So, can someone on the list also check with an 8.10 liveCD and see if
> the Orca Screen Reader works properly without having to use the
> 'Alt-F2 orca' to get it started, and post back? Thanks.

Okay, I tried this using both a 32-bit and 64-bit systems with the
i386 desktop CD. The procedure is

1. when the CD quits spinning, hit ENTER
2. hit F5
3. hit 3
4. hit ENTER
5. hit ENTER

This should start Orca when the desktop opens.

Reality! To get Orca to start, I have to use Alt+F2, type orca and hit
ENTER. I could not get Orca to start any other way, even waiting 5 or
10 minutes after the desktop appeared.

Good luck,

--
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]

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Old 12-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:14:02 -0700
Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:29:54 -0800
> NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On 12/15/2008 06:11 PM, NoOp wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install
> > > 8.04 (Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test
> > > laptop that only has 128Mb).
> >
> > Added note: just testing this, as a 'sighted' person definitely
> > outlines what blind or poor sighted folks have to go through to work
> > with computers. I wanted to say "really opened my eyes" but that
> > would be a very poor choice of words :-(
> >
> > So, can someone on the list also check with an 8.10 liveCD and see
> > if the Orca Screen Reader works properly without having to use the
> > 'Alt-F2 orca' to get it started, and post back? Thanks.
>
> Okay, I tried this using both a 32-bit and 64-bit systems with the
> i386 desktop CD. The procedure is
>
> 1. when the CD quits spinning, hit ENTER
> 2. hit F5
> 3. hit 3
> 4. hit ENTER
> 5. hit ENTER
>
> This should start Orca when the desktop opens.
>
> Reality! To get Orca to start, I have to use Alt+F2, type orca and hit
> ENTER. I could not get Orca to start any other way, even waiting 5 or
> 10 minutes after the desktop appeared.
>
> Good luck,
>

forgot to say, this is Intepid 8.10 Live CD

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Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]

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Old 12-16-2008, 02:18 AM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:29:54 -0800
NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On 12/15/2008 06:11 PM, NoOp wrote:
>
> >
> > My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install 8.04
> > (Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test laptop that
> > only has 128Mb).
>
> Added note: just testing this, as a 'sighted' person definitely
> outlines what blind or poor sighted folks have to go through to work
> with computers. I wanted to say "really opened my eyes" but that
> would be a very poor choice of words :-(
>
> So, can someone on the list also check with an 8.10 liveCD and see if
> the Orca Screen Reader works properly without having to use the
> 'Alt-F2 orca' to get it started, and post back? Thanks.
>
>

Here is the bug on this:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca/+bug/191178

I will add comments for 8.10 not working

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Charlie Kravetz
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Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]

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Old 12-16-2008, 02:39 AM
Martin McCormick
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

NoOp writes:
> First off, you have issues with the graphics & 8.10 (is it 8.10 that you
> are testing with - if not, you'll need to ensure that it is as 256MB
> won't work with the liveCD and 8.04).

#define DISKNAME Ubuntu 8.10 "Intrepid Ibex" - Release i386
#define TYPE binary
#define TYPEbinary 1
#define ARCH i386
#define ARCHi386 1

The memory issue makes perfect sense. I thought it would
run under less, but slowly.

It looks like ubuntu is great but just too big for this
system.

Thanks to you and Karl F. Larsen for your prompt
answers.

Martin McCormick

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Old 12-16-2008, 03:05 AM
NoOp
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On 12/15/2008 07:15 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:14:02 -0700
> Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:29:54 -0800
>> NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> > On 12/15/2008 06:11 PM, NoOp wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > My recommendation would be to use the alternate CD and install
>> > > 8.04 (Hardy) - It will install in 256MB (I have it on a test
>> > > laptop that only has 128Mb).
>> >
>> > Added note: just testing this, as a 'sighted' person definitely
>> > outlines what blind or poor sighted folks have to go through to work
>> > with computers. I wanted to say "really opened my eyes" but that
>> > would be a very poor choice of words :-(
>> >
>> > So, can someone on the list also check with an 8.10 liveCD and see
>> > if the Orca Screen Reader works properly without having to use the
>> > 'Alt-F2 orca' to get it started, and post back? Thanks.
>>
>> Okay, I tried this using both a 32-bit and 64-bit systems with the
>> i386 desktop CD. The procedure is
>>
>> 1. when the CD quits spinning, hit ENTER
>> 2. hit F5
>> 3. hit 3
>> 4. hit ENTER
>> 5. hit ENTER
>>
>> This should start Orca when the desktop opens.
>>
>> Reality! To get Orca to start, I have to use Alt+F2, type orca and hit
>> ENTER. I could not get Orca to start any other way, even waiting 5 or
>> 10 minutes after the desktop appeared.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>
> forgot to say, this is Intepid 8.10 Live CD
>

Thanks Charlie! And also thanks for the bug reference:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca/+bug/191178

I'll add to that bug as well. Perhaps we can get someone to look at the
issue and hopefully get it resolved for future releases.




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Old 12-16-2008, 03:51 AM
NoOp
 
Default ubuntu live CD with Screen Reader not Starting

On 12/15/2008 07:39 PM, Martin McCormick wrote:
> NoOp writes:
>> First off, you have issues with the graphics & 8.10 (is it 8.10 that you
>> are testing with - if not, you'll need to ensure that it is as 256MB
>> won't work with the liveCD and 8.04).
>
> #define DISKNAME Ubuntu 8.10 "Intrepid Ibex" - Release i386
> #define TYPE binary
> #define TYPEbinary 1
> #define ARCH i386
> #define ARCHi386 1
>
> The memory issue makes perfect sense. I thought it would
> run under less, but slowly.
>
> It looks like ubuntu is great but just too big for this
> system.
>
> Thanks to you and Karl F. Larsen for your prompt
> answers.
>
> Martin McCormick
>


Both hardy and intrepid will install on that system. Use the Alternate
CD rather than the liveCD (I do recommend hardy 8.04) and I think that
you'll find it to install without problems.


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