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Old 12-09-2008, 07:06 PM
"Brian McKee"
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:20 PM, H.S. <hs.samix@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think a non-geek thinks in terms of files and folders.

That's why programs like iTunes and Picassa are successful. Files and
folders aren't 'natural', tagging and time lines etc are more
comfortable for non-computer users.

My 2c.

Brian

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Old 12-09-2008, 07:37 PM
"H.S."
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Brian McKee wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:20 PM, H.S. <hs.samix@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think a non-geek thinks in terms of files and folders.


I a new user is introduced to Ubuntu, he does notice Places. Those are
exactly files and folders. There is no getting away from files and
folders. If there, I am willing to listen.


> That's why programs like iTunes and Picassa are successful. Files and
> folders aren't 'natural', tagging and time lines etc are more
> comfortable for non-computer users.

iTunes is not an operating system that does many things unlike Ubuntu.
In Ubuntu, a new user wants to do only a handful of things:
1. Email
2. Internet
3. Type documents
4. Multimedia

The first of three of these require files and folders idea to various
extents. I don't think you can get away without mentioning these while
letting the users explore the system.

And very common for users to receive photos from email or download from
web pages. Where do they go?

It is also common for users to not remember f-spot's interface, but less
likely to forget files and folders (since they are used everywhere).
Chances are the user will try to open photos from Nautilus. With f-spot,
he will have to browse from *all* his photos! Why doesn't f-spot allow
the user create folers as well in addition to taging and stuff, I wonder.

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Old 12-09-2008, 08:37 PM
"Brian McKee"
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM, H.S. <hs.samix@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, look - I'm not here to argue with you. I just want to pass along
a couple of observations.
This will be my last post on the subject.

At this moment - iTunes and Picassa are arguably the most popular
media and photo programs anywhere.
They both have tens of millions of users. Both of them have broken
completely with the file/folder concept.

*I* think they are popular precisely because they have done so. I
don't think of a picture by the name of the folder I filed it in, I
think of it as 'that picture of my son I took at the family reunion a
couple of years ago.'

I can find that picture either by using a time line, or tags like
family reunion or my son's name.

I have that picture in a folder on my web server. I'll be darned if I
can tell you what it's called off the top of my head. I am a computer
geek that can recite the folder names of hundreds of significant
folders across more than a half a dozen operating systems. But trying
to store pictures or music that way doesn't make nearly as much sense.
Pictures and music have 'one to many' relationships in database
speak.

The software the comes with a Kodak camera, or iPhoto on a Mac, or
Amarok, or any number of other media related software has all gone
this way. Heck, Google desktop, Gnome tracker, and Spotlight are all
trying to push that paradigm on the OS itself.

I'm glad folders and files works for you. But you asked for comments,
so there's mine.


Brian

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Old 12-09-2008, 08:53 PM
"H.S."
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Brian McKee wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM, H.S. <hs.samix@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK, look - I'm not here to argue with you. I just want to pass along
> a couple of observations.
> This will be my last post on the subject.
>
> At this moment - iTunes and Picassa are arguably the most popular
> media and photo programs anywhere.
> They both have tens of millions of users. Both of them have broken
> completely with the file/folder concept.
>
> *I* think they are popular precisely because they have done so. I
> don't think of a picture by the name of the folder I filed it in, I
> think of it as 'that picture of my son I took at the family reunion a
> couple of years ago.'
>
> I can find that picture either by using a time line, or tags like
> family reunion or my son's name.
>
> I have that picture in a folder on my web server. I'll be darned if I
> can tell you what it's called off the top of my head. I am a computer
> geek that can recite the folder names of hundreds of significant
> folders across more than a half a dozen operating systems. But trying
> to store pictures or music that way doesn't make nearly as much sense.
> Pictures and music have 'one to many' relationships in database
> speak.
>
> The software the comes with a Kodak camera, or iPhoto on a Mac, or
> Amarok, or any number of other media related software has all gone
> this way. Heck, Google desktop, Gnome tracker, and Spotlight are all
> trying to push that paradigm on the OS itself.
>
> I'm glad folders and files works for you. But you asked for comments,
> so there's mine.


Sure, I appreciate your comments. I was only trying to put forth the
point that once a new user is getting used to files and folders, asking
for folders for photos is not much of a stretch.

And the search features is really helpful.

As I mentioned earlier, I only hope f-spot could also let the user
create folders as well.

I am not arguing against the features given by iTunes and picassa, only
about features that f-spot appears to lack, actually just a couple:
1. Give the user an option to create folders if necessary
2. Give the user a choice to delete photos from the camera after the
transfer.

If these are included, I think f-spot would have merged features from
digikam and gthumb.

There is another point though. I am not sure if a shift to a new photo
manager would be possible from f-spot since it retains all the necessary
information in a database and only one folder.


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Old 12-10-2008, 05:33 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 16:53 -0500, H.S. wrote:
> 2. Give the user a choice to delete photos from the camera after the
> transfer.

You can set up Gnome to not launch f-spot right away when a camera is
plugged in. Instead, you can make it so that a folder is displayed. This
folder will have a "Camera detected - launch f-spot" button and, when
you are done importing, can be used to delete the photos from the
camera.

Or, IIRC, the f-spot import dialog has the option to either move or copy
the photos to be imported.


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Old 12-10-2008, 05:45 AM
"H.S."
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Mario Vukelic wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 16:53 -0500, H.S. wrote:
>> 2. Give the user a choice to delete photos from the camera after the
>> transfer.
>
> You can set up Gnome to not launch f-spot right away when a camera is
> plugged in. Instead, you can make it so that a folder is displayed. This
> folder will have a "Camera detected - launch f-spot" button and, when
> you are done importing, can be used to delete the photos from the
> camera.

This is one of the things I was looking for. Could you be a bit more
specific on how to do this? AFAIR, I haven't come across this on my
google searches. I have seen how to launch others programs though
(gthumb, e.g.) but nothing with the kind of a button you talk of.


> Or, IIRC, the f-spot import dialog has the option to either move or copy
> the photos to be imported.
>
>

I need to check about this with the user. He is using Hardy (has f-spot
ver 0.4.x?) and I know Intrepid has a newer version of f-spot.

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Old 12-10-2008, 06:04 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 01:45 -0500, H.S. wrote:
>
> This is one of the things I was looking for. Could you be a bit more
> specific on how to do this? AFAIR, I haven't come across this on my
> google searches.

In Intrepid and IIRC in Hardy as well, open any file manager window and
go to Edit -> Preferences -> tab Media -> Media handling -> Photos ->
set to "Open Folder". Plug in the camera, and there should be a banner
across the top of the file list along with a button.


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Old 12-10-2008, 06:18 AM
"Александр Горлов"
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Hello All



I absolutly agree with this message. I migrate from Windows about half of year ago and started use 8.04.1 then migtared to 8.10.* And from my point of view gthumb more suitable for using as photo manager. I remove f-spot and install gThumb. Regarding digicam I would like to add my 2 cents. If I not mistake this is a part of KDE product. I don't have any objections agains KDE, but in case ann user using Ubuntu and GNOME install a set of additional libraries and packages only for one application is not good way. Best way, (i don insist on this point) but* using GNOME software in GNOME desktop? otherwise user will have zoo on his/her computer and all of this packages should be supported then additional traffic will required. So my opinion is gThumb should be add as default photo manager.



2008/12/9 H.S. <hs.samix@gmail.com>

Hello,



Just wanted to put this opinion out in the open for comments.



In Ubuntu (Hardy), it appears that even though f-spot is the intended

default photo manager, gthumb appears to be more appropriate for a

novice user who is not computer literate and is learning his way around

files and folders.



gthumb maintains the file and folder structure, allows a destination

folder and has the convenient interface to delete photos upon import

from the camera. And if a user wanted to browse to his photos from

Nautilius, it is quite straightforward since the directory structure is

already known while importing photos. I think gthumb also allows tagging

(categories?) so searching by tags should not be a problem.



f-spot has this nifty feature of showing photos based on their time. But

it does not allow a folder structure and once the photos are imported in

to it, the user more or less cannot find a group of photos from Nautilus

-- since all the photos are bunched up in the destination folder in

f-spot (Photos by default).



digikam is a different beast. It is quite nifty to be used by a computer

savvy person and has features that are available in both the above two

applications. In any case, it might be too much works to get familiar

with by a beginner.



I personally would perhaps like digikam. But for a novice user, who is

just finding his way around files and folders and is not going to be a

geek by any standard, gthumb appears to be the best choice so far.



Feel free to give other insights regarding this.



Regards.



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filtered to a folder in my mailbox and get periodically deleted without

ever having been read.





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Old 12-10-2008, 01:55 PM
"H.S."
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Mario Vukelic wrote:
>
> In Intrepid and IIRC in Hardy as well, open any file manager window and
> go to Edit -> Preferences -> tab Media -> Media handling -> Photos ->
> set to "Open Folder". Plug in the camera, and there should be a banner
> across the top of the file list along with a button.
>
>

Thank you! I will try it as soon as I get the chance.

Regards.

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Please reply to this list only. I read this list on its corresponding
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filtered to a folder in my mailbox and get periodically deleted without
ever having been read.


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Old 12-10-2008, 01:57 PM
"H.S."
 
Default f-spot, gthumb and digikam -- for "grandma user"

Hello,

Александр Горлов wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I absolutly agree with this message. I migrate from Windows about half of
> year ago and started use 8.04.1 then migtared to 8.10. And from my point of
> view gthumb more suitable for using as photo manager. I remove f-spot and


Could you give some specific examples in the ways you found gthumb to be
more useful than f-spot?

Thanks.



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