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Old 12-10-2008, 06:00 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

Gilles Gravier wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> I would agree that there isn't much you can do in Linux that can't be
>> done in Windows, but there are certainly plenty of specific
>> applications that won't run on Windows.
>>
> ... and vice versa...
>
> I would agree that there isn't much you can do in Windows that can't
> be done in Linux but there are certainly plenty of specific
> applications that won't run on Linux.

I thought that part of the argument was just a given....
--
derek


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Old 12-10-2008, 06:46 PM
"Joel Bryan Juliano"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Gilles Gravier wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Derek Broughton wrote:
>>> I would agree that there isn't much you can do in Linux that can't be
>>> done in Windows, but there are certainly plenty of specific
>>> applications that won't run on Windows.
>>>
>> ... and vice versa...
>>
>> I would agree that there isn't much you can do in Windows that can't
>> be done in Linux but there are certainly plenty of specific
>> applications that won't run on Linux.
>
> I thought that part of the argument was just a given....
> --
> derek
>
>
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>

I think one thing about Linux in general is there's isn't enough
funding for the developers to pursue innovations. Since it's very
decentralized, it's all about meritocracy that depends on developer's
free time and resources. Example, honestly for me as a developer, if
I'm given enough resources to start with, and being paid enough for my
parents not to kick me from my house pursuing my interest full-time,
dude I'll be bombarding Linux with many innovations, working with
Linux and open source is dream job provided that you're paid, given
that many features are still missing, there's so many things that you
can still contribute. Plus web-apps integration and Linux, it will
totally be different. Just my 2 cents.

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:32 PM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

Answering Knapp, "Dotan Cohen" <dotancohen@gmail.com> said:
> > OK, I have not used MS for many years. What can you kill from my
> > list?
>
> The hope.

Maybe there's still some slight hope:

Does NTFS (or any Windows file system) yet have metadata journalling
like Ext3 does?
If not, crash recovery could be something Linux does well that Windows
does not.

Will Windows run on your palmtop? On your 486?
I think Linux will do so.

I think Windows /does/ run a supercomputer somewhere, doesn't it?
Linux is still the preferred choice to do so.

Multiple desktops, although available through third-party software,
are /not/ something that Windows yet offers.
Linux will run many, many. Natively.

How about multiple GUIs, from lightweight ones good for remote access
to heavyweights with all the bells and whistles? Not on Windows yet.
Linux has 'em by the dozens. (well, maybe not dozens, but then maybe
so...)

Can I update not only my OS but all the installed packages at once if
I am a Windows user? I don't think so but I haven't used a Windows
unit for some time. Maybe they finally have something?
Linux has that from several different directions. (apt, Yum, Emerge...)

Can one go completely command line if one don't need the GUI when
running Windows in order to save on resources? Not likely!
Linux is famous for it.

Can we do all administrative tasks from starting and stopping
services to user and group administration to group policy editing to
audit tracking and more from the Windows command line, even if the GUI
still runs? How about software installation, removal or upgrade from
that Windows command line?
Linux excels at this.

Maybe Windows doesn't do /quite/ all that Linux will yet.

Of course, this doesn't even mention that Linux offers you /almost/ all
the software needed to do /almost/ anything you wish, and that for no
cost.
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for /that/ from Windows!

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:41 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

2008/12/10 Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@earthlink.net>:
> Maybe there's still some slight hope:
>
> Does NTFS (or any Windows file system) yet have metadata journalling
> like Ext3 does?
> If not, crash recovery could be something Linux does well that Windows
> does not.
>

Windows crash recovery is actually pretty robust. I know, I've seen it
crash way to often!

> Will Windows run on your palmtop? On your 486?
> I think Linux will do so.
>

I have Windows on my Dell Axim x50v. My university has Windows XP Pro
SP3 on PIII 700 mHz machines.

> I think Windows /does/ run a supercomputer somewhere, doesn't it?
> Linux is still the preferred choice to do so.
>

I don't have a supercomputer.

> Multiple desktops, although available through third-party software,
> are /not/ something that Windows yet offers.
> Linux will run many, many. Natively.
>

++linux

> How about multiple GUIs, from lightweight ones good for remote access
> to heavyweights with all the bells and whistles? Not on Windows yet.
> Linux has 'em by the dozens. (well, maybe not dozens, but then maybe
> so...)
>

There are third party desktop environments for Windows, but they are all junk.

> Can I update not only my OS but all the installed packages at once if
> I am a Windows user?

If you use only MS software, then yes.

> I don't think so but I haven't used a Windows
> unit for some time. Maybe they finally have something?
> Linux has that from several different directions. (apt, Yum, Emerge...)
>
> Can one go completely command line if one don't need the GUI when
> running Windows in order to save on resources? Not likely!

Depends on what you are doing. The Windows CLI is actually pretty
robust, though it is not bash.

> Linux is famous for it.
>

Windows is famous for being easy to use.

> Can we do all administrative tasks from starting and stopping
> services to user and group administration to group policy editing to
> audit tracking and more from the Windows command line, even if the GUI
> still runs?

Actually, I don't think so- at least in Windows Server I hav eheard of
complaints that everything is done through GUI. I suppose that
_implies_ that there is no CLI config possible, though it just may be
that it is not well known.

> How about software installation, removal or upgrade from
> that Windows command line?
> Linux excels at this.
>

I don't know.

> Maybe Windows doesn't do /quite/ all that Linux will yet.
>
> Of course, this doesn't even mention that Linux offers you /almost/ all
> the software needed to do /almost/ anything you wish, and that for no
> cost.

++linux

> I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for /that/ from Windows!
>

No, certainly not.

--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-*-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه*-و-ي
А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-*-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-*-Ю-Я
а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я
ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:44 PM
Robert Holtzman
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Bart Silverstrim wrote:

> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> 2008/12/10 Bart Silverstrim <bsilver@chrononomicon.com>:
>>> Duh. That's why I throw my swords at the attacker.
>>>
>>> You should see the look on his face.
>>>
>>
>> There is a story of a commander who ran out of ammo and threw his
>> helmet at the terrorist, disabling him so that the commander could
>> neutralize him. I think it's true.
>
> His mistake was using a helmet instead of a sword. Helmets are too roundy.

To say nothing of lousy sectional density, penetration, and lack of
expansion.

--
Bob Holtzman
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:59 PM
"Andrew Burgess"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

> Micheal wrote :
> I've been running Kubuntu for a several months now. Once I let my
> system run for a week without a reboot and not one crash or any other
> anomalous problem. Tried that with a Windows XP machine and by the
> end of the week it was so slow and bogged down it took forever to do
> simple tasks.

For what it's worth, I easily reboot my Vista notebook only a few
times a month (and then only for bigger updates); I usually just sleep
it every night. I haven't noticed any significant long-lasting lag
yet.

Andrew
--
Using Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) since December 2, 2008

Dell Inspiron (1520 Laptop)

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:07 PM
Robert Holtzman
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote:

>> Some pundits will say switching to Linux will cost money. What they
>> don't tell you is switching to "any" new platform costs money.
>
> Then don't say that people will save money switching from Windows to Linux.

Like he said, it's a nonrecurring cost. Not paying for licenses and
upgrades will over time amortize the cost of switching (it says here).

..........snip..........

>> Whether that platform is a free OS or something like Mac it is going
>> to cost a certain amount to migrate but the total cost of migration
>> can be kept to a minimum with free software.

--
Bob Holtzman
The most dangerous ones aren't the ones who don't know.
They're the ones who don't know that they don't know.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:09 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

2008/12/10 Robert Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net>:
> To say nothing of lousy sectional density, penetration, and lack of
> expansion.
>
If it hits you on the U side.
^
|
However, if it hits you on the U side then it could probably do some damage!

--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-*-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه*-و-ي
А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-*-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-*-Ю-Я
а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я
ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:27 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> Will Windows run on your palmtop? On your 486?
> I think Linux will do so.

Didn't Windows even run on a 286? I don't think Linux did. OTOH, what is
the point of that argument? If you want to sell Linux to someone who is
using Windows today, it doesn't make sense to refer to last millenium
CPUs.


Nils

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Old 12-11-2008, 12:00 AM
"Cybe R. Wizard"
 
Default Selling Linux to Windows Users

I said, then:
"Dotan Cohen" <dotancohen@gmail.com> said:
> > I think Windows /does/ run a supercomputer somewhere, doesn't it?
> > Linux is still the preferred choice to do so.
> >
>
> I don't have a supercomputer.

In that same vein, does Windows allow for anything like a Beowulf
cluster so that we may have our /own/ supercomputer?

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Nice computers don't go down.
Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
"The Barsoom Project"

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