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Old 09-30-2008, 03:41 PM
Ulin the Tech Mage
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

Mark Haney wrote:

Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:


Derek Broughton wrote:


Nay Myo Win wrote:




On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Nay Myo Win <rim.riaz@gmail.com> wrote:




help me please!!




I would suggest that you ask better questions. Most people will just
ignore
a message that says nothing more than "help me please" - especially with
multiple exclamations.

And if you don't get a response after 4 days, you should probably
assume you
didn't ask a very good question.



remember guys that the panick threshold is lower for newbies. it takes
them a while to mature to where you are mentally. we need to be more
nurturing towards them





I agree with some of that. However, 'help me' doesn't /begin/ to cover
what may or may not be the problem. How many times have we been asked
'what's wrong?' and get back 'it don't work'?

Surely, even the n00bs should know the minimum requirements for asking a
question about a problem. I mean, Derek has quite a valid point. We
don't KNOW what the problem is becuase we don't know /anything/ about
his setup and what he's tried.




I agree, but at the same time, I have seen time and time again where
the n00bs think that is kinda snobish. I do tech support for a software
company and i have to be carefull about how my tone and the way my
questions some accross to the customer.



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Old 09-30-2008, 03:44 PM
NoOp
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

On 09/30/2008 08:22 AM, Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> Nay Myo Win wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Nay Myo Win <rim.riaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> help me please!!
>>>>
>>
>> I would suggest that you ask better questions. Most people will just ignore
>> a message that says nothing more than "help me please" - especially with
>> multiple exclamations.
>>
>> And if you don't get a response after 4 days, you should probably assume you
>> didn't ask a very good question.
>>
> remember guys that the panick threshold is lower for newbies. it takes
> them a while to mature to where you are mentally. we need to be more
> nurturing towards them
>
>

Yes... howver Nay Myo Win received responses from Jim, Neil & Michael
(/925 & 9/26) and didn't respond to any of them. Hence my question of
trolling or not seeing the responses - either way "help me please!"
doesn't work in any online forum.


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Old 09-30-2008, 04:53 PM
"Mark Haney"
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:

>>
>>
>> I agree with some of that. However, 'help me' doesn't /begin/ to
>> cover what may or may not be the problem. How many times have we been
>> asked 'what's wrong?' and get back 'it don't work'?
>>
>> Surely, even the n00bs should know the minimum requirements for asking
>> a question about a problem. I mean, Derek has quite a valid point.
>> We don't KNOW what the problem is becuase we don't know /anything/
>> about his setup and what he's tried.
>>
>>
>>
> I agree, but at the same time, I have seen time and time again where the
> n00bs think that is kinda snobish. I do tech support for a software
> company and i have to be carefull about how my tone and the way my
> questions some accross to the customer.
>


I've dealt with a LOT of very intelligent people over the years.
Doctors and nurses, and now I deal with researchers (8 of which are
Nobel laureates as part of the team that worked on Al Gore's global
warming project) and I've had to deal with that very problem.

But, I do try in every case to make it clear that they need to give me
as much information as possible so I can make an accurate assessment of
the problem. True, phrasing it so as not ti insult them is always
tough, but people are smart enough to know that 'it's broken' isn't near
enough information for us to help them.


--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> Nay Myo Win wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Nay Myo Win <rim.riaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> help me please!!
>>>>
>>
>> I would suggest that you ask better questions. Most people will just
>> ignore a message that says nothing more than "help me please" -
>> especially with multiple exclamations.
>>
>> And if you don't get a response after 4 days, you should probably assume
>> you didn't ask a very good question.
>>
> remember guys that the panick threshold is lower for newbies. it takes
> them a while to mature to where you are mentally. we need to be more
> nurturing towards them

OK, so we should just respond with misguided advice when we don't get a real
question? In fact, Nay got help, but it's _still_ a really good idea _not_
to panic but to assume you didn't ask the question very well.
--
derek


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Old 09-30-2008, 05:11 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:

> I agree, but at the same time, I have seen time and time again where the
> n00bs think that is kinda snobish. I do tech support for a software
> company and i have to be carefull about how my tone and the way my
> questions some accross to the customer.

So do I. but not here...

Sorry, I don't really care if people take it as snobbish. I put a lot of
(way too much) time into these lists, and the least I should be able to
expect is for a user with a question to try to provide as much background
as possible. I could have just posted the link to "ask smart questions",
but I'd have had to google it.
--
derek


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Old 09-30-2008, 06:35 PM
Nigel Henry
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 17:35, Mark Haney wrote:
> Ulin the Tech Mage wrote:
> > Derek Broughton wrote:
> >> Nay Myo Win wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Nay Myo Win <rim.riaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> help me please!!
> >>
> >> I would suggest that you ask better questions. Most people will just
> >> ignore
> >> a message that says nothing more than "help me please" - especially with
> >> multiple exclamations.
> >>
> >> And if you don't get a response after 4 days, you should probably
> >> assume you
> >> didn't ask a very good question.
> >
> > remember guys that the panick threshold is lower for newbies. it takes
> > them a while to mature to where you are mentally. we need to be more
> > nurturing towards them
>
> I agree with some of that. However, 'help me' doesn't /begin/ to cover
> what may or may not be the problem. How many times have we been asked
> 'what's wrong?' and get back 'it don't work'?
>
> Surely, even the n00bs should know the minimum requirements for asking a
> question about a problem. I mean, Derek has quite a valid point. We
> don't KNOW what the problem is becuase we don't know /anything/ about
> his setup and what he's tried.

> Mark Haney

I believe this comes down to a serious communication problem that people have
today. If you are speaking face to face with someone, you can say, "Can you
help me?", and get an instant response of, perhaps, "What's the problem?",
and so on. The same goes for IM, or IRC, but perhaps "Can you help me?" on an
IRC channel would get some choice replies.

When we send to a mailing list, it's a bit like writing a letter (snail mail),
and I believe that most folks have forgotten how to write letters. You would
not send a letter to someone which only contained the words "Can you help
me?" would you. You'd send the letter, and sometime later would receive a
reply saying "What's the problem?". You then reply saying "It doesn't work
anymore", and some days later get a reply saying, "What doesn't work
anymore?" . Sounds a bit like what we get on mailing lists eh?

I don't know if this is down to how folks are educated these days, but many
don't seem to be able to construct a written question, giving as much
information as possible in the hope of getting a reply that would resolve a
problem.

I often have problems with creating a subject line when faced with some
problem or other. Setting 7, or 8 words as a subject line for some complex
problem is not easy, and oftentimes it takes some 20, or 30 minutes to create
a subject line that may get some response from someone on a list.

Enough Tuesday evening rambling.

Nigel.






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Old 09-30-2008, 07:30 PM
Nils Kassube
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

Nigel Henry wrote:
> I believe this comes down to a serious communication problem that
> people have today. If you are speaking face to face with someone, you
> can say, "Can you help me?", and get an instant response of, perhaps,
> "What's the problem?", and so on. The same goes for IM, or IRC, but
> perhaps "Can you help me?" on an IRC channel would get some choice
> replies.

While I mostly agree with what you wrote, I would like to mention that the
question was a bit more verbose. It was "how to play .swf file on ubuntu,
hardy" "Can you help me?". Granted, the first part was only the
subject of the mail, but it was there. And there were even replies with
appropriate answers.


Nils

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Old 09-30-2008, 07:39 PM
Lie Ryan
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:30:20 +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:

> Nigel Henry wrote:
>> I believe this comes down to a serious communication problem that
>> people have today. If you are speaking face to face with someone, you
>> can say, "Can you help me?", and get an instant response of, perhaps,
>> "What's the problem?", and so on. The same goes for IM, or IRC, but
>> perhaps "Can you help me?" on an IRC channel would get some choice
>> replies.
>
> While I mostly agree with what you wrote, I would like to mention that
> the question was a bit more verbose. It was "how to play .swf file on
> ubuntu, hardy" "Can you help me?". Granted, the first part was only the
> subject of the mail, but it was there. And there were even replies with
> appropriate answers.
>
>
> Nils

Several days ago, someone said I think it's in another newsgroup) that in
Usenet, you have to assume that the newsreader cannot read the subject
line, thus the message body has to contain everything.


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Old 09-30-2008, 09:36 PM
Nigel Henry
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

On Tuesday 30 September 2008 21:39, Lie Ryan wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:30:20 +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
> > Nigel Henry wrote:
> >> I believe this comes down to a serious communication problem that
> >> people have today. If you are speaking face to face with someone, you
> >> can say, "Can you help me?", and get an instant response of, perhaps,
> >> "What's the problem?", and so on. The same goes for IM, or IRC, but
> >> perhaps "Can you help me?" on an IRC channel would get some choice
> >> replies.
> >
> > While I mostly agree with what you wrote, I would like to mention that
> > the question was a bit more verbose. It was "how to play .swf file on
> > ubuntu, hardy" "Can you help me?". Granted, the first part was only the
> > subject of the mail, but it was there. And there were even replies with
> > appropriate answers.
> >
> >
> > Nils
>
> Several days ago, someone said I think it's in another newsgroup) that in
> Usenet, you have to assume that the newsreader cannot read the subject
> line, thus the message body has to contain everything.

I think that it's true to say that if you set a subject line that makes sense,
you should repeat it in the body of the message, so that the reader of the
message understands the question, or whatever, but it appears that many
posters to mailing lists don't have any idea how to even construct a subject
line.

Just some observations.

Nigel.

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Old 10-01-2008, 12:13 PM
Aart Koelewijn
 
Default how to play .swf file on ubuntu, hardy

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:36:12 +0200, Nigel Henry wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 September 2008 21:39, Lie Ryan wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:30:20 +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
>> > Nigel Henry wrote:
>> >> I believe this comes down to a serious communication problem that
>> >> people have today. If you are speaking face to face with someone,
>> >> you can say, "Can you help me?", and get an instant response of,
>> >> perhaps, "What's the problem?", and so on. The same goes for IM, or
>> >> IRC, but perhaps "Can you help me?" on an IRC channel would get some
>> >> choice replies.
>> >
>> > While I mostly agree with what you wrote, I would like to mention
>> > that the question was a bit more verbose. It was "how to play .swf
>> > file on ubuntu, hardy" "Can you help me?". Granted, the first part
>> > was only the subject of the mail, but it was there. And there were
>> > even replies with appropriate answers.
>> >
>> >
>> > Nils
>>
>> Several days ago, someone said I think it's in another newsgroup) that
>> in Usenet, you have to assume that the newsreader cannot read the
>> subject line, thus the message body has to contain everything.
>
> I think that it's true to say that if you set a subject line that makes
> sense, you should repeat it in the body of the message, so that the
> reader of the message understands the question, or whatever, but it
> appears that many posters to mailing lists don't have any idea how to
> even construct a subject line.
>

Well, I have found, that if I really think about the wording of the
subject line and then try to put all relevant information in the body,
more often then not in the end I will have found the answer myself so I
don't have to post the question ;-)

This maybe the reason you don't see that many well formulated subject
lines and questions.

Aart


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