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Old 09-24-2008, 01:56 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default send email from command line

Mark Haney wrote:

> mierda tuti wrote:

> I hate continuing to be the one to ask to not top post. I give up.

OK, I'll pick up the ball. Mierda - please don't top post. It makes it
hard to have a conversation.
>
> Why would you need gmail to be the relay?

Because gmail _is_ your mail server? (It is mine) Or because your ISP
doesn't do TLS? (mine doesn't)

> If you have kubuntu on your system have it use sendmail locally.

Except sendmail (or any MTA) isn't part of a default Kubuntu. If you just
want to install an MTA, postfix is the default. For a single user machine,
masqmail is nice and simple.

> If you have an ISP, use their mail
> server. I don't understand the point of going through all this just to
> send mail to gmail.

It's the same amount of work sending mail via gmail as through any ISP (ok,
maybe not quite the same - gmail only does secure mail, your ISP may allow
cleartext). One guesses Mierda wants to be able to send automated mails
from some system process - which is why the request for CLI. So, assuming
the system has no MTA - or need for one - pine would probably be the best
bet (I think - I don't do CLI mail much, but iirc mutt - or mailx - doesn't
do SMTP, pine does).
--
derek


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Old 09-24-2008, 02:03 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default send email from command line

Karl Larsen wrote:

> Alas Hardy has Exim

By default, ubuntu/kubuntu doesn't install an MTA at all. If you install
something like mailx, it will - surprisingly - install exim if you don't
_ask_ for a specific "mail-transport-agent". I say "surprisingly" because
in all previous versions, the default was postfix.

# sudo aptitude install mailx

would install mailx and exim4

# sudo aptitude install mailx postfix

would install mailx and postfix
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:08 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default send email from command line

Markus Schönhaber wrote:

> I don't see anything whilly-nilly or some kind of flip-floppery here.
> Use the MTA you want - there are quite a few to chose from, for example:
> $ LANG=C aptitude show mail-transport-agent
> No current or candidate version found for mail-transport-agent
> Package: mail-transport-agent
> State: not a real package
> Provided by: courier-mta, esmtp-run, exim4-daemon-heavy,
> exim4-daemon-light, masqmail, msmtp-mta, nbsmtp, nullmailer, postfix,
> sendmail-bin, smail, ssmtp, xmail
> Ubuntu doesn't tell you which MTA you have to use. It's the other way
> round.

It doesn't tell you which MTA you _must_ use - and never has - but it is odd
that they have switched the "depends" of every package I've checked
from "postfix | mail-transport-agent" to "exim4 | mail-transport-agent"

> If you don't want Exim, use something else. Staying with the Postfix you
> already have seems to be a good choice to me.

Staying with postfix is automatic, because everything that needs an MTA is
satisfied by either postfix or exim.

Nevertheless, it does seem like willy-nilly flip-floppery to me. Ubuntu
made a conscious decision to change the default MTA from exim in Debian to
postfix, and now they've changed back.
--
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:20 PM
Rashkae
 
Default send email from command line

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Ken McLennan wrote:
>
>> G'day there Derek,
>>
>>> No, there shouldn't. Mail was written by people who believe that mail
>>> clients _shouldn't_ speak SMTP, and it _must_ have a sendmail-compatible
>>> program to actually deliver the mail
>
>> I've no idea about the pros & cons of mtas. Is there a thumbnail
>> version of the argument somewhere? or can you please explain why someone
>> would think SMTP should be avoided?
>
> In a word, "No". :-) I've hashed this over so many times with so many
> people, without getting a response that makes sense to me. It's just a
> Unix meme. From the point of view of a program like "mailx", outputting a
> message via SMTP syntax is no different from outputting it to a file - it's
> all just I/O - but all the MTA developers I've ever corresponded with
> (quite a few, especially since I hung out on the Exim developers list for a
> while) swear that it's insane to have a client program need to know SMTP
> syntax. I don't see where it makes a difference to have to know SMTP or to
> have to know _sendmail_ syntax.


It's insane because it's much more work for the programmer of the mail
client to program all the extra logic.. the possible error and
responses, networking stack, etc etc. (As opposed to knowing only one
sendmail command you need to send the mail, and let sendmail worry about
sending back/handling any errors)

The point is moot however, since mail clients were evolved to work on
Windows where there was no standard MTA program, and therefore needed SMTP.

The point is even more moot since running am MTA on your desktop has
become a casualty of the fight against SPAM, and they no longer work
well out of the box without manual configuration of smarthost forwarding
to your ISP, some of which don't even support this anymore.

For the curious, this e-mail is being forward from postfix on my
desktop, not my ISP smtp, and if you're one of the 5% of the internet
that can no longer receive e-mails directly from me because of it, I've
stopped caring.



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Old 09-24-2008, 02:25 PM
"Arthur H. Johnson II"
 
Default send email from command line

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Derek Broughton wrote:


Markus Schönhaber wrote:


I don't see anything whilly-nilly or some kind of flip-floppery here.
Use the MTA you want - there are quite a few to chose from, for example:
$ LANG=C aptitude show mail-transport-agent
No current or candidate version found for mail-transport-agent
Package: mail-transport-agent
State: not a real package
Provided by: courier-mta, esmtp-run, exim4-daemon-heavy,
exim4-daemon-light, masqmail, msmtp-mta, nbsmtp, nullmailer, postfix,
sendmail-bin, smail, ssmtp, xmail
Ubuntu doesn't tell you which MTA you have to use. It's the other way
round.


It doesn't tell you which MTA you _must_ use - and never has - but it is odd
that they have switched the "depends" of every package I've checked
from "postfix | mail-transport-agent" to "exim4 | mail-transport-agent"


If you don't want Exim, use something else. Staying with the Postfix you
already have seems to be a good choice to me.


Staying with postfix is automatic, because everything that needs an MTA is
satisfied by either postfix or exim.

Nevertheless, it does seem like willy-nilly flip-floppery to me. Ubuntu
made a conscious decision to change the default MTA from exim in Debian to
postfix, and now they've changed back.
--
derek



The nice thing about postfix for home machines is that its really easy to
set it up to send on the submission port, rather than the standard smtp
port. Here in the states a lot of isps wont let you send on port 25.--
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:25 PM
"Arthur H. Johnson II"
 
Default send email from command line

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Derek Broughton wrote:


Markus Schönhaber wrote:


I don't see anything whilly-nilly or some kind of flip-floppery here.
Use the MTA you want - there are quite a few to chose from, for example:
$ LANG=C aptitude show mail-transport-agent
No current or candidate version found for mail-transport-agent
Package: mail-transport-agent
State: not a real package
Provided by: courier-mta, esmtp-run, exim4-daemon-heavy,
exim4-daemon-light, masqmail, msmtp-mta, nbsmtp, nullmailer, postfix,
sendmail-bin, smail, ssmtp, xmail
Ubuntu doesn't tell you which MTA you have to use. It's the other way
round.


It doesn't tell you which MTA you _must_ use - and never has - but it is odd
that they have switched the "depends" of every package I've checked
from "postfix | mail-transport-agent" to "exim4 | mail-transport-agent"


If you don't want Exim, use something else. Staying with the Postfix you
already have seems to be a good choice to me.


Staying with postfix is automatic, because everything that needs an MTA is
satisfied by either postfix or exim.

Nevertheless, it does seem like willy-nilly flip-floppery to me. Ubuntu
made a conscious decision to change the default MTA from exim in Debian to
postfix, and now they've changed back.
--
derek



The nice thing about postfix for home machines is that its really easy to
set it up to send on the submission port, rather than the standard smtp
port. Here in the states a lot of isps wont let you send on port 25.--
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:17 PM
"Adrian Puente Z."
 
Default send email from command line

mierda tuti escribió:
> Hi,
>
> I newbie on ubuntu.
> I would like to can send mail from command line with mailx but I don't
> have idea.
>
> Could you say me how to configure?
>
> Many thanks and sorry for my english!
>
>
I am sending you a perl script I use to backup small files to a gmail
account. You only need to invoke like ./mailbackup.pl [File]. You have
to edit it for your needs but it works... Oh it also needs the

use MIME::Lite;
use Digest::MD5;
use Digest::SHA;

Perl Libraries. Hope you find it usefull. I know is not the exact answer
for the question but I wanted to share this.

greets,
--
Adrián Puente Z.
[www.hackarandas.com]
Donde las ideas se dispersan en bytes...

"... ruego a mi orgullo que se acompañe siempre de mi prudencia,
y si algún día mi prudencia se echara a volar, que al menos
pueda volar junto con mi locura"
--Nietzche

Huella: FBD6 4C36 2557 C64C 1318 70A8 F561 CB6F 4E40 5AFB
http://www.hackarandas.com/apuente_at_hackarandas.com.asc.gz

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Old 09-24-2008, 03:36 PM
Eric Maquiling
 
Default send email from command line

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 05:55:14AM -0600, Karl Larsen wrote:
> Alas Hardy has Exim and your detailed help does not work. I wonder
>why people decide to fix sendmail and then just make a confused MESS
>more confusing!

The difference lies in the mta and the mua. The mua sends receives mail and as
a sysadmin, its a good idea to know it.
What errors are you getting? Do you need to authenticate to your smtp? Does
it actually allow relaying? Actually, that's the first question that should be
asked.
HTH>
--
em

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Old 09-24-2008, 03:36 PM
Smoot Carl-Mitchell
 
Default send email from command line

On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 10:42 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
> Ken McLennan wrote:
>
> > G'day there Derek,
> >
> >> No, there shouldn't. Mail was written by people who believe that mail
> >> clients _shouldn't_ speak SMTP, and it _must_ have a sendmail-compatible
> >> program to actually deliver the mail
>
> > I've no idea about the pros & cons of mtas. Is there a thumbnail
> > version of the argument somewhere? or can you please explain why someone
> > would think SMTP should be avoided?
>
> In a word, "No". :-) I've hashed this over so many times with so many
> people, without getting a response that makes sense to me. It's just a
> Unix meme. From the point of view of a program like "mailx", outputting a
> message via SMTP syntax is no different from outputting it to a file - it's
> all just I/O - but all the MTA developers I've ever corresponded with
> (quite a few, especially since I hung out on the Exim developers list for a
> while) swear that it's insane to have a client program need to know SMTP
> syntax. I don't see where it makes a difference to have to know SMTP or to
> have to know _sendmail_ syntax.

There is a distinct difference between SMTP and writing a mail message
to a file. SMTP is a transport protocol which defines the interaction
between a client (sender) and a server (receiver) to move a mail message
from one to the other. You may be confusing the difference between the
transport protocol and the format of the message. SMTP has nothing to
do with the contents of a mail message. To SMTP those contents are
opaque.

As for the argument about not using SMTP to deliver a mail message to a
local MTA for further processing, I think it comes down to not adding
complexity to the MUA and not duplicating code, plus as I said in a
previous post eliminating the need to handle message queueing and
retransmission in the MUA in case of network problems.

As a practical matter I think the choice to write, say, mailx
(originally Berkeley Mail) without SMTP support was mostly a result of
the availability of a simple and reliable inter process communications
method (pipes) coupled with a simple process creation system (fork and
exec) in Unix systems. Why go through all the muck of setting up a
network connection and running SMTP when all you want to do is send a
message to a process (sendmail) which can handle all the harder stuff?

--
Smoot Carl-Mitchell
System/Network Architect
smoot@tic.com
+1 480 922 7313
cell: +1 602 421 9005

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Old 09-24-2008, 03:40 PM
Eric Maquiling
 
Default send email from command line

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 09:07:13AM -0400, Mark Haney wrote:
>system have it use sendmail locally. If you have an ISP, use their mail
>server. I don't understand the point of going through all this just to
>send mail to gmail.

Amen brother! That's what I was thinking. Sending mail through CL on Linux is
rudimentary exercise. Beats me what the problem is. Don't know why people
have to use anything else but mutt.

--
em

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