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Old 09-12-2008, 09:19 AM
Gilles Gravier
 
Default politeness

Title: Signature Home Chastity




Shalom!



Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/9/12 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:


I'll need to post REAL fast. Fortunately, I don't live IN Switzerland, so
packets leaving my home don't flow through CERN or near it... I live in
France just across the lake... so there's a chance of things arriving to you
in time.


And even if they do not arrive in time, they may arrive _before_
Gilles sends them. Here's praying that Hawkins radiation applies to
lost packets as well...


If they don't get caught inside the event horizon of a quickly
expanding black hole.



(does an expanding black hole get stuck INSIDE its own event horizon?)



Gilles.



--










Gilles Gravier = Gilles@Gravier.org


ICQ : 77488526* || MSN Messenger : Gilles@Gravier.org

Skype :*ggravier || Y! : ggravier || AOL : gillesgravier

PGP Key ID : 0x8DE6D026


"Chastity
is its own punishment." (Solomon Short)
[David Gerrold]

"De toutes les
aberrations sexuelles, la chasteté est la plus aberrante." [Anatole France]










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Old 09-12-2008, 10:44 AM
"Mark Haney"
 
Default politeness

Rafael Barreto wrote:
> I am surprised about how umpolite and rude some answers can be. Sometimes I don't dare ask a question or express an opinion fearing that somebody can ridicule me or treat me in such a rude way as Mark Haney, the latin man, treated Karl. Great culture and little education. Mark, I recommend you to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.
> Raf.
>

Let me enlighten you, as most others seem to have. If you have read my
replies to other list users, you would know this, however, I will
enlighten you.

I usually tend to answer posts that are reasonably asked questions with
politeness and respect. I've been doing this a /long/ time now and know
what the etiquette is. I'm genuinely interested in helping people learn
/that are willing to learn/.

So, feel free to ask. If there are problems with etiquette in your
email, or if there's not enough information, I'll be glad to politely
correct you and then try to help you. Feel free to peruse my replies in
any major mailing list, they are pretty well consistent.

However, I do have a pet peeve. People who refuse to learn. People who
/think/ they know more than they actually do and continue to show their
ignorance repeatedly and despite continuous requests to look before they
leap.

I really would like to think Karl has some magical device that spouts
the tripe I typically get from his posts, but I rather doubt it. The
shine fades from something like that quickly and I would think after the
repeated requests to just stop that he would know not to turn it on.

When Karl first joined the lists, we (and not just myself) tried for
several months to teach him about linux. Politely. He wouldn't listen.
He still doesn't listen. If I didn't know any better, I'd think he
was about 15 or 16.

This isn't solely about Karl. Anyone demonstrating repeatedly over the
course of months the unwillingness to learn the OS they are on the list
for, the constant asking of questions that google would answer for them,
the obvious fact that they don't want to /try/ to fix things on their
own before asking the list, that's what gets me.And that's why I get cranky.

I'll say that I have toned down my responses to Karl to only slightly
sarcastic. I'm trying to get him to listen, but it's like talking to a
wall. I really do wish he'd listen before opening his mouth. He could
potentially be good at this stuff. But, I'm tired of being nice to
someone who just wants to fill my inbox with garbage, lies and half-truths.

As for your book selection, honestly, I'm not on here to win friends, as
such. I'm here to help people. And to learn in the process. And since
you're new around here, I suggest you research things further before
taking the moral high-road with me.

The proof is in the pudding. Go over all my posts, then go over Karl's.
Then you can make up your own mind. But if you are basing your
judgment on is a handful of posts from the last couple of days, you're
missing the forest for the trees.



--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
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(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-12-2008, 10:47 AM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default politeness

2008/9/12 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
> (does an expanding black hole get stuck INSIDE its own event horizon?)
>

I think that rather defines them. From what little I understand, as
the black hole absorbs mass the event horizon moves further from the
center of the black hole. The event horizon is defined as the distance
from the center in which escape velocity equals the speed of light:
V=sqrt(2Gm/r)
Therefore:
r=2Gm/c^2

As m gets larger, r get larger and therefore the black hole expands.
It is always entraped in r<eventHorizon

--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Res
 
Default politeness

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Gilles Gravier wrote:
> (are all the aussies called Ken? the name of the "australian accented"
> voice for my TomTom is called "Ken"...)

I know 2 Kens, but 7 Matthews, 4 Mar{k|c}'s, 3 joshuas, 4 johns, 4
Roberts, 3 Toms, 3 Tims, 3 Lauras, 3 Shanes, 3 Brads, 2 Julians, um....
the rest I dont think have multiples.
I think Matthew is the most common name in oz...
In fact if I do a mysql query on 'matt%' I get 1708 users... fark me....
so, database agrees surprisingly I only appear to have 201 Johns

--
Cheers
Res

"The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
one. The game will never be over, because we're keeping the dream alive"
-Freiheit

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Old 09-12-2008, 11:52 AM
Charlie Kravetz
 
Default politeness

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:44:08 +0800
"Sandy Harris" <sandyinchina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rafael Barreto <rafbarr23@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I am surprised about how umpolite and rude some answers can be. Sometimes I
> > don't dare ask a question or express an opinion fearing that somebody can
> > ridicule me or treat me in such a rude way
>
> There's a saying "There are no stupid questions except the ones you
> don't ask". More than a little truth in that.
>
> > as Mark Haney, the latin man,
> > treated Karl. Great culture and little education.
>
> I delete many messages unread, don't know who those people are
> or what you're talking about.
>
> > Mark, I recommend you to
> > read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.
>
> May I recommend you read Eric Raymond's "How to Ask Questions the
> Smart Way"? One location: www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> That link does not work for me, but I'm in China. I'd be interested in
> knowing whether it works for others.
>
> --
> Sandy Harris,
> Quanzhou, Fujian, China

Works for me in the western United States. Thanks for the great link.

good luck,

- --
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:11 PM
Bart Silverstrim
 
Default politeness

Rafael Barreto wrote:
> I am surprised about how umpolite and rude some answers can be.
> Sometimes I don't dare ask a question or express an opinion fearing
> that somebody can ridicule me or treat me in such a rude way as Mark
> Haney, the latin man, treated Karl. Great culture and little
> education. Mark, I recommend you to read "How to Win Friends and
> Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Raf.

After many years and many lists, I've learned a few things about people
with anonymity as a weapon online.
A) the Internet is a great way to find out what people are really like.
Often, they're just dickheads.
B) lecturing faceless identities online won't change them.
C) You need to grow a thick skin; at some point, you're going to be
insulted. If you can't take that you shouldn't be online participating
in those groups. You also see this with driving. If you can't stand the
world where everyone but you can't drive worth a damn, you really
shouldn't be driving...it's just going to happen.
D) On the Internet people only know you by your writing persona. They
can't tell a deadpan sarcastic remark. They can't tell if you're
smiling. "Use smileys!". Not always, as was pointed out on this list
recently...many sociopaths and a-holes use that as an easy way to cut
verbally into someone and then back off with a "just kidding!" If your
writing skills aren't "up to snuff", if you ask questions that you
didn't bother to put effort into researching at all, if you choose words
that aren't words and make you look like an ignorant American
high-schooler "txting" their friends...you're going to get insulted at
some point and/or treated like you're a moron at some point. It seems
inevitable.
E) The Internet forums relating to Linux are populated by various geeks.
Geeks, as if possessing a social disorder of some kind, will judge you
not by color, not by social class, but by perceived intelligence. More
often then not if you're not coming across as a newbie who is try to
learn, you will be treated in a condescending manner at some point and
geeks can get nasty about it. It's almost as if they feel treated like
dirt most of the time in other aspects of life means they get an outlet
to treat people online as dirt because it's one of the few places where
they do, truly, have superior skills over those that step on them in the
real world.

These are just my observations. I've had people make absolutely no sense
going off on me for some perceived slight, and when I tried to make
amends they didn't feel any need to reconcile. That's fine, they're
jerks. I've seen people carry on threads complaining about how long the
threads are pointlessly dragging on...and they post to it to say so. Huh?

I've seen people baiting each other to get responses from them, people
pop in specifically to be a nuisance, people become whipping boy for the
forums and lists for awhile until they eventually grow silent and
someone else wrestles away the crown.

I've also seen people like NoOp on this list make a hobby of solving
people's problems with laser focus and bulldog persistence...does he
have a day job? He and several other regulars work hard to help
experienced and new alike figure out how to solve problems and people
like them are the reason these lists keep alive despite the jerks,
drive-by requests for help where you never see them again, and various
other malcontents.

In other words...there's going to be impolite jerks and there's really
nothing that can be done about them without killing the list.

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:18 PM
Bart Silverstrim
 
Default politeness

Gilles Gravier wrote:

> Oh well... the world as we know it is about to change, right? I live
> just a mere 30km from the CERN.

Any escaped singularities yet?

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:20 PM
Bart Silverstrim
 
Default politeness

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/9/12 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
>> I'll need to post REAL fast. Fortunately, I don't live IN Switzerland, so
>> packets leaving my home don't flow through CERN or near it... I live in
>> France just across the lake... so there's a chance of things arriving to you
>> in time.
>>
>
> And even if they do not arrive in time, they may arrive _before_
> Gilles sends them. Here's praying that Hawkins radiation applies to
> lost packets as well...

Can packets experience a grandfather paradox situation?

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:29 PM
"Mark Haney"
 
Default politeness

Bart Silverstrim wrote:
> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> 2008/9/12 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
>>> I'll need to post REAL fast. Fortunately, I don't live IN Switzerland, so
>>> packets leaving my home don't flow through CERN or near it... I live in
>>> France just across the lake... so there's a chance of things arriving to you
>>> in time.
>>>
>> And even if they do not arrive in time, they may arrive _before_
>> Gilles sends them. Here's praying that Hawkins radiation applies to
>> lost packets as well...
>
> Can packets experience a grandfather paradox situation?
>

No, but they can experience a grandPACKET paradox.



--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:41 PM
Bart Silverstrim
 
Default politeness

Mark Haney wrote:
> Bart Silverstrim wrote:
>> Dotan Cohen wrote:
>>> 2008/9/12 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
>>>> I'll need to post REAL fast. Fortunately, I don't live IN Switzerland, so
>>>> packets leaving my home don't flow through CERN or near it... I live in
>>>> France just across the lake... so there's a chance of things arriving to you
>>>> in time.
>>>>
>>> And even if they do not arrive in time, they may arrive _before_
>>> Gilles sends them. Here's praying that Hawkins radiation applies to
>>> lost packets as well...
>> Can packets experience a grandfather paradox situation?
>>
>
> No, but they can experience a grandPACKET paradox.

That was bad. Bad bad bad. Very bad.

:-)

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