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Old 07-30-2008, 08:55 AM
Gilles Gravier
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

Hi!

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Now that everyone has heard about the Mojave Experiment (Microsoft
> showing off Vista as a new OS) why don't we organize an Ubuntu
> Experiment. We can show Ubuntu to people telling them it's a new
> computer OS, and when they fall in love with it we can give them a
> disk and say "not only that, but it's free!".
>
> What features would be good to demonstrate? Leave price out of it-
> that will come at the end.
>
How much time do we have for a demo? This is more or less prioritized...

- Ease of installation (we need to show "as good as, or better than
Vista", since in most cases, PCs' come with Vista, not Ubuntu)
- Live CD (Vista can't compete on that one)
- Sexy GUI (compiz - again "as good as, or better than Vista")
- Avant Windows Navigator (with bouncy icons a-la MacOS)
- OpenOffice.org (you get it directly as part of the OS... no
incremental purchase necessary)
- Evolution (I hate it, but people want to see something familiar to
Outlook / Outlook Express)
- Firefox/Thunderbird/Sunbird/Lightning suite (for those who have
already made the open source choice even on Windows)
- Java web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
- Flash web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
- Skype (yeah... we've got that too)
- Acrobat Reader (yeah... we've got that too)
- Stellarium (cool OpenGL astronomy software)
- GIMP / F-Prot with a digital camera (one of the things that has kept
Windows on my home PC for a long time)
- KDE Desktop Environment (with Ubuntu, you can actually completely
choose your desktop environment)
- Updates Manager (with Ubuntu, you get free updates to everything, OS,
security, applications, without cumbersome registration)
- If the person is a developer, show NetBeans (free, good, IDE) and GCC

- AND ALL THAT FOR FREE (yes, at the end)

Note that, since I work for Sun (hence the OpenOffice.org and Netbeans
plugs) I tend to follow a similar script when demoing OpenSolaris ...
(except for Avant Windows Navigator and Skype which I have not yet
managed to get to run on OSol - KDE is in the works).

Gilles (also Gilles.Gravier@Sun.com)



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Old 07-30-2008, 09:12 AM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

2008/7/30 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
> How much time do we have for a demo? This is more or less prioritized...
>
> - Ease of installation (we need to show "as good as, or better than
> Vista", since in most cases, PCs' come with Vista, not Ubuntu)
> - Live CD (Vista can't compete on that one)
> - Sexy GUI (compiz - again "as good as, or better than Vista")
> - Avant Windows Navigator (with bouncy icons a-la MacOS)
> - OpenOffice.org (you get it directly as part of the OS... no
> incremental purchase necessary)
> - Evolution (I hate it, but people want to see something familiar to
> Outlook / Outlook Express)
> - Firefox/Thunderbird/Sunbird/Lightning suite (for those who have
> already made the open source choice even on Windows)
> - Java web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
> - Flash web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
> - Skype (yeah... we've got that too)
> - Acrobat Reader (yeah... we've got that too)
> - Stellarium (cool OpenGL astronomy software)
> - GIMP / F-Prot with a digital camera (one of the things that has kept
> Windows on my home PC for a long time)
> - KDE Desktop Environment (with Ubuntu, you can actually completely
> choose your desktop environment)
> - Updates Manager (with Ubuntu, you get free updates to everything, OS,
> security, applications, without cumbersome registration)
> - If the person is a developer, show NetBeans (free, good, IDE) and GCC
>
> - AND ALL THAT FOR FREE (yes, at the end)
>
> Note that, since I work for Sun (hence the OpenOffice.org and Netbeans
> plugs) I tend to follow a similar script when demoing OpenSolaris ...
> (except for Avant Windows Navigator and Skype which I have not yet
> managed to get to run on OSol - KDE is in the works).
>
> Gilles (also Gilles.Gravier@Sun.com)
>


Thanks for the ideas, Gilles. I suppose that I would limit the initial
demonstration to five minutes, then an extended 15 minute demo if they
are interested, with a full hour to sit down and have at it for those
who want.

But I disagree that we should demonstrate what Ubuntu has that they
already have with Vista. That is not much reason to switch. We should
show things that Vista doesn't have. For instance, with Mojave MS
showed off the ability to easily stitch photos together in a panorama.
What can Ubuntu do that Vista (or at least XP) cannot [easily] do?


--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:21 AM
Gilles Gravier
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/7/30 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
>
>> How much time do we have for a demo? This is more or less prioritized...
>>
>> - Ease of installation (we need to show "as good as, or better than
>> Vista", since in most cases, PCs' come with Vista, not Ubuntu)
>> - Live CD (Vista can't compete on that one)
>> - Sexy GUI (compiz - again "as good as, or better than Vista")
>> - Avant Windows Navigator (with bouncy icons a-la MacOS)
>> - OpenOffice.org (you get it directly as part of the OS... no
>> incremental purchase necessary)
>> - Evolution (I hate it, but people want to see something familiar to
>> Outlook / Outlook Express)
>> - Firefox/Thunderbird/Sunbird/Lightning suite (for those who have
>> already made the open source choice even on Windows)
>> - Java web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>> - Flash web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>> - Skype (yeah... we've got that too)
>> - Acrobat Reader (yeah... we've got that too)
>> - Stellarium (cool OpenGL astronomy software)
>> - GIMP / F-Prot with a digital camera (one of the things that has kept
>> Windows on my home PC for a long time)
>> - KDE Desktop Environment (with Ubuntu, you can actually completely
>> choose your desktop environment)
>> - Updates Manager (with Ubuntu, you get free updates to everything, OS,
>> security, applications, without cumbersome registration)
>> - If the person is a developer, show NetBeans (free, good, IDE) and GCC
>>
>> - AND ALL THAT FOR FREE (yes, at the end)
>>
>> Note that, since I work for Sun (hence the OpenOffice.org and Netbeans
>> plugs) I tend to follow a similar script when demoing OpenSolaris ...
>> (except for Avant Windows Navigator and Skype which I have not yet
>> managed to get to run on OSol - KDE is in the works).
>>
>> Gilles (also Gilles.Gravier@Sun.com)
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the ideas, Gilles. I suppose that I would limit the initial
> demonstration to five minutes, then an extended 15 minute demo if they
> are interested, with a full hour to sit down and have at it for those
> who want.
>
> But I disagree that we should demonstrate what Ubuntu has that they
> already have with Vista. That is not much reason to switch. We should
> show things that Vista doesn't have. For instance, with Mojave MS
> showed off the ability to easily stitch photos together in a panorama.
> What can Ubuntu do that Vista (or at least XP) cannot [easily] do?
>
As I mentionned :
- Live CD
- Free updates (no registration)

By the way, panoramas in Windows are much better with professional tools
like AutoPano (unfortunately unavailable on Linux)

OK... You can add :

- Zonefree DVD playing (with libdvdcss installed)
- No need for an antivirus
- In general the sheer quantity of similar functions that you get on
Vista... but for free.

Keep in mind that most modern operating systems can mostly all do the
same things... just in different ways (different costs, different GUIs,
different constraints). So trying to show things that can't be done on
Vista will :

1) Be hard
2) Lead to a pissing contest where Vista will likely win in "number of
proprietary features not available on Linux"

Gilles.



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Old 07-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Chris Jones
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

Hi,

>>> - Java web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>>> - Flash web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>>> - Skype (yeah... we've got that too)
>>> - Acrobat Reader (yeah... we've got that too)

+ Google Earth + Picassa etc. The list is longer.

>> Thanks for the ideas, Gilles. I suppose that I would limit the initial
>> demonstration to five minutes, then an extended 15 minute demo if they
>> are interested, with a full hour to sit down and have at it for those
>> who want.
>>
>> But I disagree that we should demonstrate what Ubuntu has that they
>> already have with Vista. That is not much reason to switch. We should
>> show things that Vista doesn't have. For instance, with Mojave MS
>> showed off the ability to easily stitch photos together in a panorama.
>> What can Ubuntu do that Vista (or at least XP) cannot [easily] do?

I agree in theory, but in practise you have to remember you are
basically trying to get people to switch from windows to ubuntu. So even
if you don't like it you are I think going to have to address this.
Showing that Ubuntu has in many cases the same apps available as under
windows, and in other cases alternatives that are just as good, is I
think important.

>>
> As I mentionned :
> - Live CD
> - Free updates (no registration)

How about the fact that *all* software comes from the same installation
sources, the various DEB repos. Same for updates, once you have
installed anything via these repos (and I think almost everything you
could ever want is available from them) updates for everything, system
or applications, come from the same source.

>
> By the way, panoramas in Windows are much better with professional tools
> like AutoPano (unfortunately unavailable on Linux)
>
> OK... You can add :
>
> - Zonefree DVD playing (with libdvdcss installed)
> - No need for an antivirus
> - In general the sheer quantity of similar functions that you get on
> Vista... but for free.
>
> Keep in mind that most modern operating systems can mostly all do the
> same things... just in different ways (different costs, different GUIs,
> different constraints). So trying to show things that can't be done on
> Vista will :
>
> 1) Be hard
> 2) Lead to a pissing contest where Vista will likely win in "number of
> proprietary features not available on Linux"
>
> Gilles.
>
>
>


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Old 07-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Gilles Gravier
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

Chris,

Chris Jones wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>>>> - Java web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>>>> - Flash web applications (yeah... we've got that too)
>>>> - Skype (yeah... we've got that too)
>>>> - Acrobat Reader (yeah... we've got that too)
>>>>
>
> + Google Earth + Picassa etc. The list is longer.
>
Yes. I limited that... also media players... games...
>
>
>> As I mentionned :
>> - Live CD
>> - Free updates (no registration)
>>
>
> How about the fact that *all* software comes from the same installation
> sources, the various DEB repos. Same for updates, once you have
> installed anything via these repos (and I think almost everything you
> could ever want is available from them) updates for everything, system
> or applications, come from the same source.
>
NOT TRUE!

Medibuntu for the codecs / libdvdcss
Skype repository for Skype (though it's also on Medibuntu)
Many other applications (Logitech Squeezebox, for example) have their
own repository...

Gilles


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Old 07-30-2008, 09:55 AM
Chris Jones
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

> NOT TRUE!
>
> Medibuntu for the codecs / libdvdcss
> Skype repository for Skype (though it's also on Medibuntu)
> Many other applications (Logitech Squeezebox, for example) have their
> own repository...

Hmm, That is exactly what I said. I didn't say there was only one repo...

Once you have added all the various repos to your system, then updates
*do* all come through the same apt based update system. So at that point
they do all *seem* to come from the same source, even if behind the
scenes various different servers are used. That is the point I was
trying to make, but obviously failed.

Chris

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Old 07-30-2008, 10:03 AM
Gilles Gravier
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

Sorry... English isn't my native language. I probably didn't read your
original point well.

We agree.

Gilles.

Chris Jones wrote:
>> NOT TRUE!
>>
>> Medibuntu for the codecs / libdvdcss
>> Skype repository for Skype (though it's also on Medibuntu)
>> Many other applications (Logitech Squeezebox, for example) have their
>> own repository...
>>
>
> Hmm, That is exactly what I said. I didn't say there was only one repo...
>
> Once you have added all the various repos to your system, then updates
> *do* all come through the same apt based update system. So at that point
> they do all *seem* to come from the same source, even if behind the
> scenes various different servers are used. That is the point I was
> trying to make, but obviously failed.
>
> Chris
>
>


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Old 07-30-2008, 10:56 AM
"Joel Bryan Juliano"
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that everyone has heard about the Mojave Experiment (Microsoft
> showing off Vista as a new OS) why don't we organize an Ubuntu
> Experiment. We can show Ubuntu to people telling them it's a new
> computer OS, and when they fall in love with it we can give them a
> disk and say "not only that, but it's free!".
>
> What features would be good to demonstrate? Leave price out of it-
> that will come at the end.
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>

I think the term "Free" should be more emphasized as a feature other
than a virtue of open source. People nowadays will tend to believe
that a thing being *Free* is something that have less worth value.
Personally, I see being *Free* as a worry-free system policy feature
that is open source and highly collaborated which ensures the best
upgrades, security, innovations and new features. *Free* can also mean
something you get from torrent sites for *Free*(which is another
story). The real sad truth is it's really hard to generate
appreciation from something that they take from granted, but a
*Bundle* is something that have more value than something that is
*Free*.
Like the gift of free will, a drug-free community, and free from
suffering. *Free* is a vision, a gift, and a promise of an open
future.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:18 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

2008/7/30 Gilles Gravier <gilles@gravier.org>:
> As I mentionned :
> - Live CD
> - Free updates (no registration)

From experience, that won't interest home users! We need a 'you can do
this' not a 'you are free from this' approach. And home users won't
need a LiveCD.

> By the way, panoramas in Windows are much better with professional tools
> like AutoPano (unfortunately unavailable on Linux)

AutoPano for Linux:
http://www.autopano.net/buy-autopano/download.html

> OK... You can add :
>
> - Zonefree DVD playing (with libdvdcss installed)

That's a good one!

> - No need for an antivirus

That's a great one!

> - In general the sheer quantity of similar functions that you get on
> Vista... but for free.

Can you provide precise examples (I am unfamiliar with Vista, fortunately).

> Keep in mind that most modern operating systems can mostly all do the
> same things... just in different ways (different costs, different GUIs,
> different constraints). So trying to show things that can't be done on
> Vista will :
>
> 1) Be hard
> 2) Lead to a pissing contest where Vista will likely win in "number of
> proprietary features not available on Linux"
>

Good point. Maybe we could point out ease of use. I don't think that
customization is a good point either, but for some people it is
important.

--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
--
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:20 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default The Ubuntu Experiment

2008/7/30 Chris Jones <jonesc@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk>:
>>> But I disagree that we should demonstrate what Ubuntu has that they
>>> already have with Vista. That is not much reason to switch. We should
>>> show things that Vista doesn't have. For instance, with Mojave MS
>>> showed off the ability to easily stitch photos together in a panorama.
>>> What can Ubuntu do that Vista (or at least XP) cannot [easily] do?
>
> I agree in theory, but in practise you have to remember you are
> basically trying to get people to switch from windows to ubuntu. So even
> if you don't like it you are I think going to have to address this.
> Showing that Ubuntu has in many cases the same apps available as under
> windows, and in other cases alternatives that are just as good, is I
> think important.

I see your point.

>> As I mentionned :
>> - Live CD
>> - Free updates (no registration)
>
> How about the fact that *all* software comes from the same installation
> sources, the various DEB repos. Same for updates, once you have
> installed anything via these repos (and I think almost everything you
> could ever want is available from them) updates for everything, system
> or applications, come from the same source.

That is a good point, though I don't think that many people will
understand the importance.


--
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
--
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