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Old 07-25-2008, 01:52 AM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-24, Mario Vukelic <mario.vukelic@dantian.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 15:52 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> One of my guesses is that the network manager either can't
>> handle passwords containing spaces, or it can't handle long
>> passwords (20+ characters). Unfortunately, I don't have any
>> more time to spend troublshooting it
>
> Dunno about spaces, but I use a pw longer than that.

It seemed like a longshot, but I couldn't think of any other
reason why the password would work via wpa_cli and not via the
network manager.

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Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm having BEAUTIFUL
at THOUGHTS about the INSIPID
visi.com WIVES of smug and wealthy
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:41 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

Grant Edwards wrote:

>> It's not - but it's also not what I've ever seen. What do you have
>> in /etc/network/interfaces?
>
> I never looked (the machine's been packed up to be shipped
> back). I assumed that the network manager was supposed to take
> care of that stuff.

Smart assumption. Network manager EXPLICITLY ignores any interface you've
configured in /etc/network/interfaces. Since you talked about "manual
configuration" it's a safe bet there IS something in there. When you start
messing with things you don't understand, don't blame the system when you
break it.

>> I know that, but it ISN"T YOUR PROBLEM! Zeroconf is purely a
>> fallback for the situation where there is no DHCP available.
>
> But I didn't want it to do the zeroconf thing. I'm not on a
> "windows network". If there's no DHCP server, I want the
> interface to stay down. On my networks, coming up with some
> 192.168.x.* address is simply not the right thing to do.

It doesn't matter - that wasn't your problem. It may have masked your
problem by showing you an active interface, but that wasn't why you
couldn't access the network. You couldn't access the network, because it
wasn't getting an IP address from DHCP.

> I guess something else is wrong with the network manager, then.

I _guess_ you disabled it - but we'll never know.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:42 AM
NoOp
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 07/24/2008 06:52 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-24, NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 07/24/2008 11:10 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I found recipes in forum postings. Was the installer supposed
>>>>> to do something?
>>>>
>>>> No. The "hardware drivers manager" does (jockey-kde in KDE and jockey-gtk
>>>> in Gnome), _after_ you start your desktop.
>>>
>>> I didn't see anything. After I noticed that wan0 wasn't
>>> associating no matter how many times I ran the network-manager,
>>> I started sifting through the sysmem log and found an error
>>> message from the bt43 driver saying that it couldn't find a
>>> firmware file. After some googling through the forums, I found
>>> the recipe for download the firmware and the extractor and
>>> generating the required .fw files.
>>
>> Jockey should have found it, but do this from a terminal:
>>
>> sudo apt-get install --reinstall jockey-gtk
>> sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter
>
> I had no working network connection.
>

Then you shouldn't have been trying to install a linux distro on a
customer's computer to begin with. I'm not trying to be critical; but to
load any linux distro without some means to eventually connect isn't the
way to go IMO. That said, I quite often install machines via disk
without a network connection (it's my preferred method) and then later
connect to the network in order to download updates and/or 3rd party
drivers.

Obviously you _did_ eventually have some network connection in order to
load:

<quote>
2) Firmware for the the wireless chipset had to be manually
downloaded, extracted (using a utility that had to be
built from a source tarball), and copied into
/lib/firmware.
</quote>

or did you load that tarball via some other means?

I also understand the frustration when a new install or an update
doesn't automagically include the private driver that I need to continue
to update/load... the archives here will attest to that. But it's pretty
much the same in the Windows world; I've performed upgrades from WinME
to Win2K to WinXPP and put in an ethernet nic so that the poor upgradee
could connect to DSL or cable, only to find out that Win didn't have the
nic drivers on their CD. I then would have to download via other means,
transfer to a floppy or CD and then update the nic drivers that way.

Computers sometimes aren't quite the 'appliances' that folks think the
are and sometimes you just have to take that into account. Bottom line
is (IMO) you shouldn't have been 'introducing' the customer's laptop to
Ubuntu/Gentoo/etc without having taken into account that the laptop's
wireless might not work out of the box.

Obviously it did have some network connection, and if not a simple $20
Airlink 101 USB to ethernet adaptor works just fine for a hardwired
connection. You might want to buy one of those just to have on hand;
mine has saved me several times when I had a bad nic or wireless card.
Also look into USB and/or PCMCIA wireless cards that are shown to work
out of the box with Ubuntu: I can't honestly give you the names of any
as they seem to change with every new update revision. Perhaps others on
this list can.






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Old 07-25-2008, 02:16 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-25, NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Obviously you _did_ eventually have some network connection in order to
> load:
>
><quote>
> 2) Firmware for the the wireless chipset had to be manually
> downloaded, extracted (using a utility that had to be
> built from a source tarball), and copied into
> /lib/firmware.
></quote>
>
> or did you load that tarball via some other means?

I downloaded, extracted/built the firmware cutter, downloaded
the firmware, and extracted the firmware on a different
machine. Then I transferred the firmware files using a USB
flash drive.

> Obviously it did have some network connection, and if not a simple $20
> Airlink 101 USB to ethernet adaptor works just fine for a hardwired
> connection. You might want to buy one of those just to have on hand;

Definitely a good idea. Also useful when one occasionally
needs a second Ethernet interface on a machine.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I don't know WHY I
at said that ... I think it
visi.com came from the FILLINGS in
my rear molars ...


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Old 07-31-2008, 08:21 PM
Pastor JW
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thursday 24 July 2008 11:11:34 am Leif Gregory wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:20:41 -0300
>
> Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> > That's a design "feature". It seems to be one of those odd stances
> > Linux developers are always taking - "since there's no security
> > benefit to hiding SSIDs, we won't gracefully handle them".
>
> Yeah. I agree it's not a strong security benefit, but it's still lame.
> I'm a n00b to Linux, but I've been in IT professionally for close to 20
> years. Layered security is a good practice. In and of itself, not
> broadcasting an SSID is relatively pathetic, but as one more layer on
> top of WPA/WPA2, TKIP, strong passwords, MAC control etc. There's
> nothing wrong with implementing it.

I think that also. What is the point of advertizing in the first place?
Isn't that about like taking out an ad in the paper giving the address to
your house and further saying the key is under the mat? You are less likely
to have unwanted visitors if you don't take out that ad!

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Old 07-31-2008, 08:47 PM
Rashkae
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

Pastor JW wrote:
> On Thursday 24 July 2008 11:11:34 am Leif Gregory wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:20:41 -0300
>>
>> Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>> That's a design "feature". It seems to be one of those odd stances
>>> Linux developers are always taking - "since there's no security
>>> benefit to hiding SSIDs, we won't gracefully handle them".
>> Yeah. I agree it's not a strong security benefit, but it's still lame.
>> I'm a n00b to Linux, but I've been in IT professionally for close to 20
>> years. Layered security is a good practice. In and of itself, not
>> broadcasting an SSID is relatively pathetic, but as one more layer on
>> top of WPA/WPA2, TKIP, strong passwords, MAC control etc. There's
>> nothing wrong with implementing it.
>
> I think that also. What is the point of advertizing in the first place?
> Isn't that about like taking out an ad in the paper giving the address to
> your house and further saying the key is under the mat? You are less likely
> to have unwanted visitors if you don't take out that ad!
>

It's more like putting your house numbers in a visible spot, so people
looking for your address can identify it readily.

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