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Old 07-24-2008, 06:06 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Perhaps that's true, but on my Gentoo systems the DHCP client
>>>> isn't started until the link is up.
>>>
>>> The link is "up" as far as the O/S knows when the wireless
>>> interface is active.
>>
>> I watched the syslog, and the DHCP client was attempting to
>> send requests on eth0 while the link was still down and was
>> attempting to send requests on wlan0 when it was down (not yet
>> associated).
>>
>> When I did a "ps" I could see that the DHCP client was running
>> on wlan0, but wpa_supplicant wasn't, so the DHCP client was
>> timing out before the wireless adapter had was associated with
>> a WAP and was capable of transmitting a packet.
>>
>> That just doesn't seem like the right thing to do.
>
> It's not - but it's also not what I've ever seen. What do you have
> in /etc/network/interfaces?

I never looked (the machine's been packed up to be shipped
back). I assumed that the network manager was supposed to take
care of that stuff.

>>> Sure you have. Find a windows system, connect it to a network
>>> with no DHCP server - you'll get a 169.*.*.* address.
>>
>> My point was that I've never been on a network where that's how
>> things were supposed to work (despite what Windows does).
>
> And my point is that you have, if you've ever been on a
> Windows network.

I guess I've never been on a Windows network.

> I know that, but it ISN"T YOUR PROBLEM! Zeroconf is purely a
> fallback for the situation where there is no DHCP available.

But I didn't want it to do the zeroconf thing. I'm not on a
"windows network". If there's no DHCP server, I want the
interface to stay down. On my networks, coming up with some
192.168.x.* address is simply not the right thing to do.

>> So everytime you boot, you've got to bring up the network
>> manager and manually start-up wireless networking?
>
> No, _now_ we're trying to debug the fact that you've
> thoroughly b0rked your networking.

What did I do to "b0rk" my networking? All I did was install
from the CD, and then copy the wifi chipset firmware into
/lib/modules. After 3-4 hours of not being able to get wan0 to
associate without running wpa_cli, I got desperate and removed
the autoipd daemon, but it made no difference other than it
keeps from fooling the system into thinking it's attached to a
wired network when it isn't.

>> I expected the network manager save the configuration anywhere
>> so that the next time you boot, it would start the interface
>> using the previous configuration.
>
> As it does... Occasionally, it fails to associate on my
> system, but generally it associates with any network I've
> previously told it to connect to.

In a previous posting I was told that to get wpa_supplicant
started you have to run the network manager config program. How
can wan0 associate with a WAP if wpa_supplicant isn't started
when the system boots?

>> One of my guesses is that the network manager either can't
>> handle passwords containing spaces,
>
> possibly - but it seems doubtful]
>
>> or it can't handle long passwords (20+ characters).
>
> It certainly can

I guess something else is wrong with the network manager, then.

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at bouquet with a subtle
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CHLORIDE ...


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Old 07-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I found recipes in forum postings. Was the installer supposed
>> to do something?
>
> No. The "hardware drivers manager" does (jockey-kde in KDE and jockey-gtk
> in Gnome), _after_ you start your desktop.

I didn't see anything. After I noticed that wan0 wasn't
associating no matter how many times I ran the network-manager,
I started sifting through the sysmem log and found an error
message from the bt43 driver saying that it couldn't find a
firmware file. After some googling through the forums, I found
the recipe for download the firmware and the extractor and
generating the required .fw files.

> Maybe not 30 - but in my case it did require some time before
> Jockey told me about the required firmware.

Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but it probably took me at
least a hour of looking at system logs and googling before I
had the firmware files installed. Nothing popped up during
that time.

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Old 07-24-2008, 06:11 PM
Leif Gregory
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:20:41 -0300
Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:

> That's a design "feature". It seems to be one of those odd stances
> Linux developers are always taking - "since there's no security
> benefit to hiding SSIDs, we won't gracefully handle them".

Yeah. I agree it's not a strong security benefit, but it's still lame.
I'm a n00b to Linux, but I've been in IT professionally for close to 20
years. Layered security is a good practice. In and of itself, not
broadcasting an SSID is relatively pathetic, but as one more layer on
top of WPA/WPA2, TKIP, strong passwords, MAC control etc. There's
nothing wrong with implementing it.

Yes, I know discovering an AP not broadcasting it's SSID is trivial
with the right tools, but hey, locking your car door only keeps out
thieves not carrying a screwdriver to pop the lock cylinder, or
something more hefty to break a window, and putting your convertible
softtop up will only keep out the thief not carrying a pocketknife or
other bladed instrument. We still do it anyways. Hopefully you've
implemented some other theft deterrent mechanism, but there's nothing
wrong with having an engine immobilizer *and* locking your car doors.

There's always the folks who say I never lock my car (or leave the top
down) so they won't have any reason to break or cut anything, but hey,
whatever trips your trigger. <grin>

--
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:51 PM
chris
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 4:34 AM, Mario Spinthiras
<spinthiras.mario@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would suggest using wicd a try instead of NetworkManager. NM gave me woes
> which I was not willing to go any further to fix. Wicd replaces NM out of
> the box. The gui might not be the same (nice and funky) but wicd seemed like
> a better choice. Have it running for about 5 days now and its very nice.
>
> Regards,
> Mario
>



ooooo... I like wicd. Thank you for the hint on that.

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Old 07-24-2008, 06:57 PM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 15:52 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> One of my guesses is that the network manager either can't
> handle passwords containing spaces, or it can't handle long
> passwords (20+ characters). Unfortunately, I don't have any
> more time to spend troublshooting it

Dunno about spaces, but I use a pw longer than that.


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Old 07-24-2008, 06:57 PM
Peter Garrett
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 06:10:02PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> I found recipes in forum postings. Was the installer supposed
> >> to do something?
> >
> > No. The "hardware drivers manager" does (jockey-kde in KDE and jockey-gtk
> > in Gnome), _after_ you start your desktop.
>
> I didn't see anything. After I noticed that wan0 wasn't
> associating no matter how many times I ran the network-manager,
> I started sifting through the sysmem log and found an error
> message from the bt43 driver saying that it couldn't find a
> firmware file. After some googling through the forums, I found
> the recipe for download the firmware and the extractor and
> generating the required .fw files.
>
> > Maybe not 30 - but in my case it did require some time before
> > Jockey told me about the required firmware.
>
> Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but it probably took me at
> least a hour of looking at system logs and googling before I
> had the firmware files installed. Nothing popped up during
> that time.

Grant:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=b43+firmware+how+ubuntu+hardy&btnG= Google+Search&meta=

First hit:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx/Hardy

Two solutions:

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter

or

http://ubuntu.cafuego.net/pool/hardy-cafuego/broadcom/b43-firmware_1.0-0cafuego0_all.deb

I have a Broadcom bcm 4306 on an iBook G4 - it worked as soon as I
installed the cafuego package. It's a dual boot - with Debian Sid. On Sid it
worked as soon as I installed b43-fwcutter, with wpa encryption set
up in the router/AP and the nm-applet config.

I'm not saying it's obvious, and of course you need a wired connection
to grab either of the above, but the packages are not really hard to
find, and you certainly don't need to compile anything.

Peter

"INX Is Not X" Live CD based on Ubuntu 8.04 : http://inx.maincontent.net
Screenshots slideshow: http://inx.maincontent.net/album/1.png.html

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Old 07-24-2008, 07:27 PM
NoOp
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 07/24/2008 11:10 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> I found recipes in forum postings. Was the installer supposed
>>> to do something?
>>
>> No. The "hardware drivers manager" does (jockey-kde in KDE and jockey-gtk
>> in Gnome), _after_ you start your desktop.
>
> I didn't see anything. After I noticed that wan0 wasn't
> associating no matter how many times I ran the network-manager,
> I started sifting through the sysmem log and found an error
> message from the bt43 driver saying that it couldn't find a
> firmware file. After some googling through the forums, I found
> the recipe for download the firmware and the extractor and
> generating the required .fw files.

Jockey should have found it, but do this from a terminal:

sudo apt-get install --reinstall jockey-gtk
sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter

That will go out and get the firmware and drivers for you, see:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/b43-fwcutter
additional info here:
http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43
and for jockey:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-updates/admin/jockey-gtk
[there have been issues with jocky not getting/identifying b43:
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bugs but installing
b43-fwcutter should resolve the problem]




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Old 07-24-2008, 11:48 PM
"Brian McKee"
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Peter Garrett
<peter.garrett@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> I'm not saying it's obvious, and of course you need a wired connection
> to grab either of the above, but the packages are not really hard to
> find, and you certainly don't need to compile anything.

He's a Gentoo enthusiast - and he's complaining about compiling
stuff.... to me that makes him trolling or split personality....
<ducks> :-)

(I repeat this endlessly when stuck behind a Windows box)

Just because you can't figure it out right away doesn't mean it's broken...

Brian

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Old 07-25-2008, 01:51 AM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-24, Peter Garrett <peter.garrett@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Grant:
> http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=b43+firmware+how+ubuntu+hardy&btnG= Google+Search&meta=
>
> First hit:
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx/Hardy

What took the longest was realizing that the bt43 driver wasn't
working. The device showed up and responded to ifconfig and
iwconfig commands, so it took me quite a while to realize that
the driver wasn't actually working. On some other chipsets
I've used if the firmware is missing, the device doesn't even
show up.

> I'm not saying it's obvious, and of course you need a wired
> connection to grab either of the above,

Which I didn't have.

> but the packages are not really hard to find, and you
> certainly don't need to compile anything.

Sure, now I know that. Where were you at 2AM yesterday.

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at any WOO-WOO... Maybe a
visi.com YUBBA... But no WOO-WOO!


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Old 07-25-2008, 01:52 AM
Grant Edwards
 
Default 8.04 networking seems awfully broken.

On 2008-07-24, NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 07/24/2008 11:10 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2008-07-24, Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>
>>>> I found recipes in forum postings. Was the installer supposed
>>>> to do something?
>>>
>>> No. The "hardware drivers manager" does (jockey-kde in KDE and jockey-gtk
>>> in Gnome), _after_ you start your desktop.
>>
>> I didn't see anything. After I noticed that wan0 wasn't
>> associating no matter how many times I ran the network-manager,
>> I started sifting through the sysmem log and found an error
>> message from the bt43 driver saying that it couldn't find a
>> firmware file. After some googling through the forums, I found
>> the recipe for download the firmware and the extractor and
>> generating the required .fw files.
>
> Jockey should have found it, but do this from a terminal:
>
> sudo apt-get install --reinstall jockey-gtk
> sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter

I had no working network connection.

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at it leads to heaven, or
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