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Old 07-23-2008, 01:56 PM
"David Gibb"
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

I'm experiencing some weird behaviour with my disk drives, and I was
hoping someone might be able to give me some hints.

I have an oldish computer (AMD athlon 850) that I wanted to use as a
file server. I had a 20GB PATA drive lying about, and I bought a
promise sata300 tx4 card plus 2 500GB sata drives that were on
special.

I hooked the 2 sata drives to the card, and the PATA drive to the
motherboard's controller, and then I installed ubuntu server 8.04 on
the 20GB drive. Everything went smoothly until I rebooted after the
install, when it couldn't find the system drive. I played around with
the boot settings in the bios until I found that none of the 'IDE-X'
settings worked, but 'SCSI' did. Once ubuntu started up, I found that
the 20GB pata drive showed up as /dev/sdc, and the 2 500GB SATA drives
showed up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. I found this to be a touch weird,
but everything seemed to be working so I left it as is.

I then installed software RAID 1 on the two 500GB drives, then LVM on
top of them, samba, etc, etc. Everything works great. I still wanted
to simulate a drive failure, so that I could verify that the RAID
mirroring was working, and to figure out which physical drive was
which. Here's when the trouble started.

When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
found" error.

I guess my questions are as follows:

1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?

Thanks!
David

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Old 07-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Jimmy Montague
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

My guess would be that the Promise RAID controller preempts the system
bios and sees hda residing on its own strap. Secondary status is
assigned to the ide device on the mainboard controller.

That's only a guess, but I bet it ain't far off the mark. Have you tried
doing away with the ide drive and just running the Promise controller
and the two RAID drives?



On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 09:56 -0400, David Gibb wrote:
> I'm experiencing some weird behaviour with my disk drives, and I was
> hoping someone might be able to give me some hints.
>
> I have an oldish computer (AMD athlon 850) that I wanted to use as a
> file server. I had a 20GB PATA drive lying about, and I bought a
> promise sata300 tx4 card plus 2 500GB sata drives that were on
> special.
>
> I hooked the 2 sata drives to the card, and the PATA drive to the
> motherboard's controller, and then I installed ubuntu server 8.04 on
> the 20GB drive. Everything went smoothly until I rebooted after the
> install, when it couldn't find the system drive. I played around with
> the boot settings in the bios until I found that none of the 'IDE-X'
> settings worked, but 'SCSI' did. Once ubuntu started up, I found that
> the 20GB pata drive showed up as /dev/sdc, and the 2 500GB SATA drives
> showed up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. I found this to be a touch weird,
> but everything seemed to be working so I left it as is.
>
> I then installed software RAID 1 on the two 500GB drives, then LVM on
> top of them, samba, etc, etc. Everything works great. I still wanted
> to simulate a drive failure, so that I could verify that the RAID
> mirroring was working, and to figure out which physical drive was
> which. Here's when the trouble started.
>
> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
> found" error.
>
> I guess my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>
> Thanks!
> David
>


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Old 07-23-2008, 02:25 PM
Karl Larsen
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

David Gibb wrote:
> I'm experiencing some weird behaviour with my disk drives, and I was
> hoping someone might be able to give me some hints.
>
> I have an oldish computer (AMD athlon 850) that I wanted to use as a
> file server. I had a 20GB PATA drive lying about, and I bought a
> promise sata300 tx4 card plus 2 500GB sata drives that were on
> special.
>
> I hooked the 2 sata drives to the card, and the PATA drive to the
> motherboard's controller, and then I installed ubuntu server 8.04 on
> the 20GB drive. Everything went smoothly until I rebooted after the
> install, when it couldn't find the system drive. I played around with
> the boot settings in the bios until I found that none of the 'IDE-X'
> settings worked, but 'SCSI' did. Once ubuntu started up, I found that
> the 20GB pata drive showed up as /dev/sdc, and the 2 500GB SATA drives
> showed up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. I found this to be a touch weird,
> but everything seemed to be working so I left it as is.
>
> I then installed software RAID 1 on the two 500GB drives, then LVM on
> top of them, samba, etc, etc. Everything works great. I still wanted
> to simulate a drive failure, so that I could verify that the RAID
> mirroring was working, and to figure out which physical drive was
> which. Here's when the trouble started.
>
> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
> found" error.
>
> I guess my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>
> Thanks!
> David
>
>
Hi David welcome to the mix of PATA and SATA hard drives. I have one
of each and my BIOS goes bonkers if both are running. I would do this:
check your BIOS for a way to TELL each HD when to boot, or since I ain't
got that, un-plug the PATA and use just the SATA, which I did and no
more problems. But for sure it is a BIOS problem.

Karl


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Old 07-23-2008, 02:42 PM
David Vincent
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Gibb wrote:
> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
> found" error.
>
> I guess my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?

my guess is your grub is installed to sata drive #1 (/dev/sda) and your
sata disk #2 (/dev/sdb) is not set to bootable.

someone please correct me if this seems too convoluted.

1. you want to install grub to your /dev/sdc so when both disks fail
grub can still find your stage1 and boot ubuntu.

boot into ubuntu, open a terminal, type these commands:

sudo grub
find /boot/grub/stage1 (pay attention to the output here)
root (hd0,2) (i'm guessing that is the output from above, if not use
what grub spat out)
setup (hd0,2)
quit

now with both drives pulled ubuntu should still boot.

2. in ubuntu install "gparted" in your favorite manner either with
synaptic or the add/remove programs app or apt-get or whatever. open
gparted (found under the System menu in Administration) and locate your
/dev/sdb drive. right-click the partition and see what flags are set on
it. click the "boot" flag if it isn't ticked. click "ok"

now if you pull the first drive ubuntu should still boot, if you pull
the second drive ubuntu should still boot, and if you pull both sata
drives ubuntu should still boot depending on where you've mounted your
raid1 (/home for example would cause problems).

hth

- -d

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Old 07-23-2008, 02:44 PM
Rashkae
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

David Gibb wrote:
> I'm experiencing some weird behaviour with my disk drives, and I was
> hoping someone might be able to give me some hints.
>
> I have an oldish computer (AMD athlon 850) that I wanted to use as a
> file server. I had a 20GB PATA drive lying about, and I bought a
> promise sata300 tx4 card plus 2 500GB sata drives that were on
> special.
>
> I hooked the 2 sata drives to the card, and the PATA drive to the
> motherboard's controller, and then I installed ubuntu server 8.04 on
> the 20GB drive. Everything went smoothly until I rebooted after the
> install, when it couldn't find the system drive. I played around with
> the boot settings in the bios until I found that none of the 'IDE-X'
> settings worked, but 'SCSI' did. Once ubuntu started up, I found that
> the 20GB pata drive showed up as /dev/sdc, and the 2 500GB SATA drives
> showed up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. I found this to be a touch weird,
> but everything seemed to be working so I left it as is.
>
> I then installed software RAID 1 on the two 500GB drives, then LVM on
> top of them, samba, etc, etc. Everything works great. I still wanted
> to simulate a drive failure, so that I could verify that the RAID
> mirroring was working, and to figure out which physical drive was
> which. Here's when the trouble started.
>
> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
> found" error.
>
> I guess my questions are as follows:
>
> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>
> Thanks!
> David
>

Your BIOS is playing musical boot drive sequence. What really causes
the problem here is you are installing Ubuntu on the PATA, but Ubuntu,
and possibly the BIOS, thinks that one your SATA's is the boot drive,
and installs the Master boot record on that drive. The master boot
record has to know on which hard drive the Grub stage 2 loader is found
(or is that stage 1.5,, I can never this part straight), but if the
drive numbering scheme changes (ie, a drive is removed or added),
between the boot record and the grub install on /boot, everything asplodes.

(BTW, PATA drives will now normally show up as sd? if the drive is
attached to a controller that uses the shiny new libata drivers...
Nothing to be excited about here.)

The solution to your woes:

Install Ubuntu on the PATA drive with *only* that drive attached. Once
you have working Ubuntu install, then you can add the SATA drives and
do your stuff with them. In this case, the Master boot record and Grub
files will both reside on the same hard drive, and so long as you tell
your BIOS to boot from that hard drive, the drive numbering can never
get confused (it will always be drive 0)

(you can re-use your current installation by unplugging the SATA drives,
and use a boot CD to do a grub-install/repair, then you can re-attach
SATA. Just remember when you do that you probably have to go in BIOS
and explicitly make PATA your boot drive.)

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Old 07-23-2008, 02:51 PM
Rashkae
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

David Vincent wrote:
> David Gibb wrote:
>> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
>> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
>> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
>> found" error.
>
>> I guess my questions are as follows:
>
>> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
>> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
>> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
>> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
>> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
>> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>
> my guess is your grub is installed to sata drive #1 (/dev/sda) and your
> sata disk #2 (/dev/sdb) is not set to bootable.
>
> someone please correct me if this seems too convoluted.
>
> 1. you want to install grub to your /dev/sdc so when both disks fail
> grub can still find your stage1 and boot ubuntu.
>
> boot into ubuntu, open a terminal, type these commands:
>
> sudo grub
> find /boot/grub/stage1 (pay attention to the output here)
> root (hd0,2) (i'm guessing that is the output from above, if not use
> what grub spat out)
> setup (hd0,2)
> quit
>

Actually, yeah, this method is probably easier to get things fixed than
my suggestion. Only difference is, sdc will not be device 0, but you
need it to be so.

Therefore, between the find and root commands, add this one:

device (hd0) /dev/sdc

when you run the root command, make the device number 0, as above, but
the partition number (the one after the coma) should be the same as
reported by find.

Also, you don't want setup (hd0,2), but rather setup (hd0) (you want to
install grub in the master boot record of hard drive 0, not any partition.)


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Old 07-23-2008, 03:18 PM
"David Gibb"
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

Wow guys. Thanks for all the input. I'll give your suggestions a shot,
and report back when I get some results.

David

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com> wrote:
> David Vincent wrote:
>> David Gibb wrote:
>>> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
>>> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
>>> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
>>> found" error.
>>
>>> I guess my questions are as follows:
>>
>>> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
>>> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
>>> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
>>> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
>>> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
>>> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>>
>> my guess is your grub is installed to sata drive #1 (/dev/sda) and your
>> sata disk #2 (/dev/sdb) is not set to bootable.
>>
>> someone please correct me if this seems too convoluted.
>>
>> 1. you want to install grub to your /dev/sdc so when both disks fail
>> grub can still find your stage1 and boot ubuntu.
>>
>> boot into ubuntu, open a terminal, type these commands:
>>
>> sudo grub
>> find /boot/grub/stage1 (pay attention to the output here)
>> root (hd0,2) (i'm guessing that is the output from above, if not use
>> what grub spat out)
>> setup (hd0,2)
>> quit
>>
>
> Actually, yeah, this method is probably easier to get things fixed than
> my suggestion. Only difference is, sdc will not be device 0, but you
> need it to be so.
>
> Therefore, between the find and root commands, add this one:
>
> device (hd0) /dev/sdc
>
> when you run the root command, make the device number 0, as above, but
> the partition number (the one after the coma) should be the same as
> reported by find.
>
> Also, you don't want setup (hd0,2), but rather setup (hd0) (you want to
> install grub in the master boot record of hard drive 0, not any partition.)
>
>
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:32 PM
"David Gibb"
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

find /boot/grub/stage1
yields:
(hd2,0)

So, just to be clear, should I now do:

device (hd0) /dev/sdc
root (hd0,0)
setup (hd0)
quit

?

Sorry to be cowardly about this, I just don't want to make things worse ;-)

David



On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 11:18 AM, David Gibb <degibb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow guys. Thanks for all the input. I'll give your suggestions a shot,
> and report back when I get some results.
>
> David
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Rashkae <ubuntu@tigershaunt.com> wrote:
>> David Vincent wrote:
>>> David Gibb wrote:
>>>> When I pulled sata drive #1, I get a blank screen with a blinking
>>>> cursor. No GRUB, no nothing. When I pulled sata drive #2, I get "GRUB
>>>> Hard disk error". When I pull both disks, I get a "System disk not
>>>> found" error.
>>>
>>>> I guess my questions are as follows:
>>>
>>>> 1) Does anyone know why my PATA drive isn't showing up as /dev/hda?
>>>> 2) I guess I could possibly explain the "GRUB Hard disk error" if the
>>>> absence of a drive caused the drive number to change, but I don't know
>>>> why the absence of the other drive causes a blank screen.
>>>> 3) Any idea how I should tinker with this system so that I can still
>>>> boot it in case one of the raid drives fails?
>>>
>>> my guess is your grub is installed to sata drive #1 (/dev/sda) and your
>>> sata disk #2 (/dev/sdb) is not set to bootable.
>>>
>>> someone please correct me if this seems too convoluted.
>>>
>>> 1. you want to install grub to your /dev/sdc so when both disks fail
>>> grub can still find your stage1 and boot ubuntu.
>>>
>>> boot into ubuntu, open a terminal, type these commands:
>>>
>>> sudo grub
>>> find /boot/grub/stage1 (pay attention to the output here)
>>> root (hd0,2) (i'm guessing that is the output from above, if not use
>>> what grub spat out)
>>> setup (hd0,2)
>>> quit
>>>
>>
>> Actually, yeah, this method is probably easier to get things fixed than
>> my suggestion. Only difference is, sdc will not be device 0, but you
>> need it to be so.
>>
>> Therefore, between the find and root commands, add this one:
>>
>> device (hd0) /dev/sdc
>>
>> when you run the root command, make the device number 0, as above, but
>> the partition number (the one after the coma) should be the same as
>> reported by find.
>>
>> Also, you don't want setup (hd0,2), but rather setup (hd0) (you want to
>> install grub in the master boot record of hard drive 0, not any partition.)
>>
>>
>> --
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>> ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>>
>

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Old 07-23-2008, 04:20 PM
Rashkae
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

David Gibb wrote:
> find /boot/grub/stage1
> yields:
> (hd2,0)
>
> So, just to be clear, should I now do:
>
> device (hd0) /dev/sdc
> root (hd0,0)
> setup (hd0)
> quit
>
> ?
>
> Sorry to be cowardly about this, I just don't want to make things worse ;-)
>

Yes, that's right, (I'm assuming /dev/sdc is your pata where ubuntu is
installed. I kind of lost track atm)

And remember, after this is done, you still have go into your BIOS
setting and tell the thing that your PATA drive is the first boot device.

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Old 07-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Rashkae
 
Default Hard drive weirdness.

David Vincent wrote:

>
> 2. in ubuntu install "gparted" in your favorite manner either with
> synaptic or the add/remove programs app or apt-get or whatever. open
> gparted (found under the System menu in Administration) and locate your
> /dev/sdb drive. right-click the partition and see what flags are set on
> it. click the "boot" flag if it isn't ticked. click "ok"
>

This step is... useless. Won't hurt anything, but doesn't achieve
anything. It doesn't matter to grub which partition is or is not marked
bootable.. Unless you are doing something exotic by mixing MS-DOS chain
loader MTBR with grub, marking partitions as bootable has no effect.
You would need to setup grub on each device for grub to boot from either
hard drive. However, since in this case, the /boot resides outside the
raid, you can't boot if the root drive is dead anyhow, so there is no
point in making the raid members bootable.

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