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Old 09-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Chris Jeffries
 
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I don't complain that my issues have not been addressed - if no-one
knows anything to help, fair enough.

What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have looked through is
either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking help because they
are not expert enough in how they ask the question (we all had to take
our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in to slag off the
person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes on. There's just too
much chaff and not enough wheat.

Hopefully I can find more productive places to find support when I need
it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to Windows.

Bye guys.


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Old 09-03-2008, 12:56 PM
"Mark Haney"
 
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Chris Jeffries wrote:
> I don't complain that my issues have not been addressed - if no-one
> knows anything to help, fair enough.
>
> What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have looked through is
> either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking help because they
> are not expert enough in how they ask the question (we all had to take
> our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in to slag off the
> person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes on. There's just too
> much chaff and not enough wheat.
>
> Hopefully I can find more productive places to find support when I need
> it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to Windows.
>
> Bye guys.
>
>

90%? I don't think so. For the most part, people here are very nice
and helpful. But, like anything there are a few who aren't. As for the
last little issue we had, that was caused by nothing more than a troll.
You'll see those everywhere, no matter what list you join.

As for me, (and I"m sure the 'experts' comment was directed at me
mostly), I am quite aware we all had to start somewhere. But nowhere
else do you see a person say 'it's broke, fix it' and expect the
'experts' to pull a fix out of their butts without knowing the problem.
How many times have you gone to have your car looked at and NOT
explained what the symptoms are? That's all we ask. I'd rather be
inundated with too much info, rather than not enough. Is that so hard
to ask?

I will also say this. In my case, I am on over a dozen lists. Most of
which get a couple mails a day. Over the years I've managed to get
pretty good at condensing things down to a manageable level. But it's a
LOT of data to sift through over the course of a day. And, in a good
many cases, I know I've overlooked threads and had my threads over
looked. In that case, you need to re-submit the problem, maybe in
bolder type, just to get it back in our minds. It happens. There are
too few people on these lists who know a little bit of everything to be
able to catch everything that comes through. That's why I am such an
advocate for teaching as I help fix a problem. And push for getting
people to experiment on their own. The more people who become
knowledgeable, the less demand is placed on us 'experts'.

I'm not here to hold anyone's hand. I'm here to help you begin to
figure things out on your own. You know the parable about teaching a
man to fish, etc. That's what these lists needs.

I hate to see you go, hopefully you'll move to another linux distro or
list. But, honestly, even in the Windows lists, you'll find the same
problems.



--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
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(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Leonard Chatagnier
 
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--- Chris Jeffries <chris@candm.org.uk> wrote:

> I don't complain that my issues have not been
> addressed - if no-one
> knows anything to help, fair enough.
>
> What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have
> looked through is
> either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking
> help because they
> are not expert enough in how they ask the question
> (we all had to take
> our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in
> to slag off the
> person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes
> on. There's just too
> much chaff and not enough wheat.
>
> Hopefully I can find more productive places to find
> support when I need
> it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to
> Windows.
>
> Bye guys.
Let us know when, if you find a more productive list.
I doubt it and welcome to the world of User's Lists.
Try a windows list and you'll be lucky to get a reply.
I haven't frequented many user lists but haven't ran
across one better that this one. What you see here
you'll see on the others to a much worse degeee. Try
Debian for instance.

Leonard Chatagnier
lenc5570@sbcglobal.net

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Old 09-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Karl Larsen
 
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Chris Jeffries wrote:
> I don't complain that my issues have not been addressed - if no-one
> knows anything to help, fair enough.
>
> What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have looked through is
> either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking help because they
> are not expert enough in how they ask the question (we all had to take
> our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in to slag off the
> person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes on. There's just too
> much chaff and not enough wheat.
>
> Hopefully I can find more productive places to find support when I need
> it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to Windows.
>
> Bye guys.
>
>
>
The name Ubuntu means it just works. If that didn't happen in your
case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
Windows works on your computer use it!

Karl


--

Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:45 PM
"Mark Haney"
 
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Karl Larsen wrote:

>>
>>
> The name Ubuntu means it just works. If that didn't happen in your
> case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
> Windows works on your computer use it!
>
> Karl
>
>

What a load of crap, Karl. Are you serious? Googling 'Ubuntu' gives me
this:

Ubuntu (IPA: [uːˈbuːntuː] in English,[1] [ùɓúntú] in Zulu) is a free
computer operating system based on the Linux kernel. Its name comes from
the Zulu word ubuntu, loosely translated as "humanity".

(Thanks Wikipedia.)

So not only are you WRONG about what it means, you're simply not being
helpful at all in trying to get the problems fixed.

I've never been more appalled at a post in my life. Did you even look
at his previous posts before this one? Probably not.

The problems he was having (at least the VPN one) would probably have
been a problem in Windows as well.


His printing problems weren't problems so much as he wasn't sure how to
configure his linux box to print to a windows shared printer.

The point is, /nothing/ 'just works' all the time. People have problems
getting things setup. In Windows or otherwise. We all have to start
somewhere. Your attitude toward him (and others) is childish and makes
this list look very bad in the eyes of a lot of people. Would you
appreciate your mechanic telling you, 'well Oldsmobile means 'it just
works' and since it doesn't for you, maybe you should go to Ford'?

How would you have liked one of your school teachers to tell you what
you just told Chris? Would you have learned anything? No. Would you
have been encouraged to keep trying? No.

I can't remember a time when I've posted so many semi-to-angry emails to
a list. It's like dealing with 5 year olds. We are all supposed to be
adults on this list, yet I continue to see posts like this one. If you
can't help the poster, then STFU. Plain and simple. If you have
nothing useful to add concerning Ubuntu, do likewise. Get some manners
and show some respect.


--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-03-2008, 02:53 PM
"Tommy Trussell"
 
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On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Karl Larsen <k5di@zianet.com> wrote:
> The name Ubuntu means it just works.

I would like to respectfully disagree, and suggest that you might read
what it says here http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

> If that didn't happen in your
> case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
> Windows works on your computer use it!

Please think about how that statement sounds, and read
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct again.

Thank you.

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Old 09-03-2008, 02:59 PM
James Takac
 
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Hi Mark

On Thursday 04 September 2008 00:45:28 Mark Haney wrote:
> Karl Larsen wrote:
> > The name Ubuntu means it just works. If that didn't happen in your
> > case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
> > Windows works on your computer use it!
> >
> > Karl
>
> What a load of crap, Karl. Are you serious? Googling 'Ubuntu' gives me
> this:
>
> Ubuntu (IPA: [uːˈbuːntuː] in English,[1] [ùɓúntú] in Zulu) is a free
> computer operating system based on the Linux kernel. Its name comes from
> the Zulu word ubuntu, loosely translated as "humanity".
>
> (Thanks Wikipedia.)
>
> So not only are you WRONG about what it means, you're simply not being
> helpful at all in trying to get the problems fixed.
>
> I've never been more appalled at a post in my life. Did you even look
> at his previous posts before this one? Probably not.
>
> The problems he was having (at least the VPN one) would probably have
> been a problem in Windows as well.
>
>
> His printing problems weren't problems so much as he wasn't sure how to
> configure his linux box to print to a windows shared printer.
>
> The point is, /nothing/ 'just works' all the time. People have problems
> getting things setup. In Windows or otherwise. We all have to start
> somewhere. Your attitude toward him (and others) is childish and makes
> this list look very bad in the eyes of a lot of people. Would you
> appreciate your mechanic telling you, 'well Oldsmobile means 'it just
> works' and since it doesn't for you, maybe you should go to Ford'?
>
> How would you have liked one of your school teachers to tell you what
> you just told Chris? Would you have learned anything? No. Would you
> have been encouraged to keep trying? No.
>
> I can't remember a time when I've posted so many semi-to-angry emails to
> a list. It's like dealing with 5 year olds. We are all supposed to be
> adults on this list, yet I continue to see posts like this one. If you
> can't help the poster, then STFU. Plain and simple. If you have
> nothing useful to add concerning Ubuntu, do likewise. Get some manners
> and show some respect.
>
>
> --
> Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar
>
>
> Mark Haney
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> ERC Broadband
> (828) 350-2415
>
> Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support


As a side note here when Ubuntu is installed in the examples folder one will
find a vid of Nelson Mandella explaining the meaning of Ubuntu which seems to
reflect an ideal and certainly doesn't reflect what I can see above in Karl's
answer

James

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Old 09-03-2008, 03:10 PM
Rashkae
 
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Karl Larsen wrote:
> Chris Jeffries wrote:
>> I don't complain that my issues have not been addressed - if no-one
>> knows anything to help, fair enough.
>>
>> What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have looked through is
>> either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking help because they
>> are not expert enough in how they ask the question (we all had to take
>> our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in to slag off the
>> person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes on. There's just too
>> much chaff and not enough wheat.
>>
>> Hopefully I can find more productive places to find support when I need
>> it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to Windows.
>>
>> Bye guys.
>>
>>
>>
> The name Ubuntu means it just works. If that didn't happen in your
> case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
> Windows works on your computer use it!
>
> Karl
>
>

I'd like some of,,, whatever that was you were on.

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Old 09-03-2008, 03:15 PM
"Mark Haney"
 
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James Takac wrote:
> Hi Mark

>
>
> As a side note here when Ubuntu is installed in the examples folder one will
> find a vid of Nelson Mandella explaining the meaning of Ubuntu which seems to
> reflect an ideal and certainly doesn't reflect what I can see above in Karl's
> answer
>
> James
>


Okay, before I answer this, is your comment directed to ward MY answer
to Karl? Or to Karl's answer to Chris?


--
Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt -- Caius Julius Caesar


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support

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Old 09-03-2008, 06:28 PM
Karl Larsen
 
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Rashkae wrote:
> Karl Larsen wrote:
>
>> Chris Jeffries wrote:
>>
>>> I don't complain that my issues have not been addressed - if no-one
>>> knows anything to help, fair enough.
>>>
>>> What has pissed me off is that 90% of what I have looked through is
>>> either 'experts' slagging off people who are seeking help because they
>>> are not expert enough in how they ask the question (we all had to take
>>> our first step sometime) or everyone else piling in to slag off the
>>> person who slagged off the newbie - and so it goes on. There's just too
>>> much chaff and not enough wheat.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I can find more productive places to find support when I need
>>> it. If not, maybe I will return (reluctantly) to Windows.
>>>
>>> Bye guys.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The name Ubuntu means it just works. If that didn't happen in your
>> case then your computer is either not main stream or it is broken. If
>> Windows works on your computer use it!
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'd like some of,,, whatever that was you were on.
>
>
Since you dislike what I said why are you saying what you say?


Karl


--

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Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
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