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Old 02-15-2012, 04:11 AM
Rick Green
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?

Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,
largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado
project. I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. The clean install
wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy
of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I
was up and running. I've used that installation for every recording I've
done since. For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to
work-around its quirks
When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the
latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the
order I start up programs. But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack
for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.
Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are
stacking up faster than ever.


I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a
first attempt with the firewire interface...


With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the
ffado-dbus-server. With this one, it merely complains that the dbus
server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then
when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.
This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test
ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.


I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,
accepting all the defaults for now. When I attempt to start jack, it
fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.


After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and
start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server
first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start
ffado-mixer first.)
I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of
whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. About 24
minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),
jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,
too. I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything
jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back
on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. Only then could I tell
Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's
transport was messed up. I could move the playhead either directly, or
with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end
of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no
effect.
I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl
threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut
down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then
qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not
responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to
the terminal and resort to kill -9 again.


The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see
any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. Have they
gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be
any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?


--
Rick Green

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009

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Old 02-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 00:11 -0500, Rick Green wrote:
> [snip] But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack
> for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.

I always build a kernel-rt myself. At least you should use a full
preempted with threadirqs set to the boot parameters. There are just a
few developers, such as the 64 Studio people, that build kernel-rt I
like. For example Arch Linux kernels fail for my Wi-Fi, they exclude
HPET to the rt. Ubuntu Studio 11.10 by default comes with the
kernel-generic.

If you get xruns, first get a kernel-rt, second check if rtirq set your
card to the highest priority.

I for example need to add "hdspm":
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc hdspm snd usb i8042"

The second might not have significant impact, but the first, a kernel-rt
will improve a lot.

> [snip] jack inexplicably dies [snip]

Did you switch between Jack1 and Jack2?

Regards,
Ralf


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Old 02-15-2012, 04:03 PM
Rick Green
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 00:11 -0500, Rick Green wrote:

[snip] But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack
for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.


I always build a kernel-rt myself. At least you should use a full
preempted with threadirqs set to the boot parameters. There are just a
few developers, such as the 64 Studio people, that build kernel-rt I
like. For example Arch Linux kernels fail for my Wi-Fi, they exclude
HPET to the rt. Ubuntu Studio 11.10 by default comes with the
kernel-generic.
Yeah, that was the first, worst regression down this slippery slope.
What happened? I would think that packaging an -rt kernel would be job 1
for a 'studio' distro. Especially since the RT patches were accepted into
mainline. I was comfortable compiling and installing kernels way back in
the days of LILO and Linux 1.x, but I could probably count on one hand the
number of times I've attempted it since 2.0, and I'm nowhere up to speed
on the complexities of grub2 and initrd's, so I'm now dependent on
distributor's packages.
My portable recording rig runs on an early AMD_64 laptop. The TI
firewire and Broadcom Wifi share an IRQ, so I've long ago learned to turn
off the Wifi before I start jack.




If you get xruns, first get a kernel-rt, second check if rtirq set your
card to the highest priority.

I for example need to add "hdspm":
RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc hdspm snd usb i8042"

The second might not have significant impact, but the first, a kernel-rt
will improve a lot.


[snip] jack inexplicably dies [snip]


Did you switch between Jack1 and Jack2?


Right now, I've got the default package, ISTR jackdmp v1.9.2 or
thereabouts. (the machine's not booted at the moment). This confuses me,
I thought jackdmp = jack2, and jackd would show v 1.x.x. My machine is
just single-core, so I don't need jackdmp. Is there a package for Jack1,
and might it be appropriate to switch to it?


--
Rick Green

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Scott Lavender
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Rick Green <rtg@aapsc.com> wrote:
> for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?
>
> Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,
> largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado
> project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install
> wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of
> the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was
> up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done
> since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its
> quirks
> *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the
> latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I
> start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than
> a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.
> *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking
> up faster than ever.
>
> *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a
> first attempt with the firewire interface...
>
> *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the
> ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server
> isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I
> restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.
> *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test
> ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.
>
> I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,
> accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails
> with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.
>
> After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and
> start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server
> first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer
> first.)
> *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of
> whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24
> minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),
> jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,
> too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything
> jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back
> on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour
> to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport
> was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<
> button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted
> capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.
> *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl
> threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down
> at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl
> itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message
> from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and
> resort to kill -9 again.
>
> *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see
> any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they
> gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be
> any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?
>
> --
> Rick Green
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin
>
> "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
> safety and our ideals."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users

Hi Rick,

I'm Scott Lavender, the Ubuntu Studio Project Leader. I would like to
address some of your comments and concerns.

Is there any future for Ubuntu Studio as an productive audio recording
and mixing environment? Absolutely! Is _this_ the time for Ubuntu
Studio? No, not really. Not yet.

After a period of severe stagnation, there are many changes in
progress and others being planned. In some cases we are making
changes to simply fix things and in others we are making changes to
shape the direction of Ubuntu Studio.

I can't answer specifics about your firewire trouble as I don't have a
firewire device, but this is an area I would like to make more stable
for 12.04. There are people currently on the team we will be using to
test this use case.

The kernel issue is a sticky wicket. The RT kernel was pulled from
the archives, this was not a decision that the Studio Team could
effectively mitigate. The reasons for it's removal were not only
numerous but also justified. However, we are working on getting a
-lowlatency kernel into the repository, which is based on the stock
Ubuntu kernel and doesn't need the invasive, and
non-determinately-timed RT patch. Since threading capabilities were
added in 2.6.39, we feel that the -lowlatency kernel not only can be
maintained easily and aligned with the current Ubuntu kernel version
number, but it can also provide the necessary latencies that a
majority of users need. Does this mean no one might not need the RT
kernel? No, there will most likely be a subset of users who will
require it for either hardware or other superlative requirements.

One issue we are continuing to resolve in 12.04 is the transition to
XFCE, amongst other issues. This means that 11.10 should be
considered as completely unpolished and limited in functionality.

In an overall sense, I would posit that 12.04 and possibly 12.10 would
be the era where we rebuild the stability and basic functionality of
Ubuntu Studio in a specific scope. Most likely only certain aspect of
these items would need to continue into 12.10.

The next phase would ideally see the same attention devoted to
improving documentation and tutorials. Getting it fundamentally sound
as the fundamental functionality in Ubuntu Studio.

The following would then see improvements in the user experience.
These might include better pulse audio <-> jack integration (either
seemless and transparent or one-click transition) and project
automation for work flows (e.g. ladish for audio projects), along with
other potential areas.

Lastly, I would like for everyone to keep in mind that we work within
the ecosystem of Ubuntu. This means that we are restricted to their
policies for the repositories, etc. Therefore, we are limited on
which packages can ship, e.g. the RT kernel and those that do not
comply for licensing reasons. Of course we also get a huge amount of
benefit from Ubuntu/Canonical in terms of hosting, image building,
testing, ad naseum, so please do not misconstrue that I am resentful
of this situation, as my feeling are quite the opposite. But users
should recognize that Ubuntu Studio may be limited on what we can
either do or the timing of which we can do it in.

I hope this quick email helps explain some of the situations in better context.

Please let me know if you have further questions.

ScottL

working within the paradigm of ubuntu

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Old 02-18-2012, 08:24 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 12:03 -0500, Rick Green wrote:
> Yeah, that was the first, worst regression down this slippery slope.
> What happened? I would think that packaging an -rt kernel would be job 1
> for a 'studio' distro. Especially since the RT patches were accepted into
> mainline. I was comfortable compiling and installing kernels way back in
> the days of LILO and Linux 1.x, but I could probably count on one hand the
> number of times I've attempted it since 2.0, and I'm nowhere up to speed
> on the complexities of grub2 and initrd's, so I'm now dependent on
> distributor's packages.
> My portable recording rig runs on an early AMD_64 laptop. The TI
> firewire and Broadcom Wifi share an IRQ, so I've long ago learned to turn
> off the Wifi before I start jack.

I agree that at least a full preempt kernel with threadirqs set as boot
parameter should be available, since the rt patch comes with 3 system
calls that only can be used with the proprietary nvidia driver, if the
GPL will be offended. OTOH even if there shouldn't be this license
issue, you won't get perfect orthopedic shoes off the shelf and I've
seen some pre-build kernel-rt that where build with myths at the back of
the maintainer's mind. Those kernels are useless for all of my needs,
e.g. the Arch's kernel-rt that comes without hrtimer/HPET module.

I'm using GRUB legacy, but I compiled kernel-rt for usage with GRUB2
like this:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg01985.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg02032.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/thrd5.html

> Right now, I've got the default package, ISTR jackdmp v1.9.2 or
> thereabouts. (the machine's not booted at the moment). This confuses me,
> I thought jackdmp = jack2, and jackd would show v 1.x.x. My machine is
> just single-core, so I don't need jackdmp. Is there a package for Jack1,
> and might it be appropriate to switch to it?

Open Synaptic and use the "Quick filter" to search for "jackd". It will
then show you "jackd2" and "jackd1" packages. The package "jackd" is a
dummy, all apps needing jackd depend to that dummy and not directly to
jackd1 or jackd2.

Regards,
Ralf


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Old 02-18-2012, 08:48 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 13:02 -0600, Scott Lavender wrote:
> The following would then see improvements in the user experience.
> These might include better pulse audio <-> jack integration (either
> seemless and transparent or one-click transition) and project
> automation for work flows (e.g. ladish for audio projects), along with
> other potential areas.

You are aware that many sound cards don't have audio output when
pulseaudio is installed, even if it's killed? I need my sound card also
when jackd isn't running.

Those ugly session handlers need a patched version of jackd. I hope you
don't add the "refuse-connections-patch" as a default to jackd.

LTS versions shouldn't have flaws. I only installed Oneiric because I
can't wait until April. I suddenly get a job and have no time to set up
Arch Linux to become a DAW. If I would have more time, I would prefer
Arch Linux at the moment and wait for the release of the next LTS of
Ubuntu in April.

> Lastly, I would like for everyone to keep in mind that we work within
> the ecosystem of Ubuntu. This means that we are restricted to their
> policies for the repositories, etc. Therefore, we are limited on
> which packages can ship, e.g. the RT kernel and those that do not
> comply for licensing reasons. Of course we also get a huge amount of
> benefit from Ubuntu/Canonical in terms of hosting, image building,
> testing, ad naseum, so please do not misconstrue that I am resentful
> of this situation, as my feeling are quite the opposite. But users
> should recognize that Ubuntu Studio may be limited on what we can
> either do or the timing of which we can do it in.

There wouldn't be licensing issues if you would add the FLOSS nv
graphics driver. The nouveau driver anyway is borked and doesn't work
for half of the community. Some people might need the FLOSS nv or
proprietary nvidia driver if hard real time is needed, even if the
nouveau driver should work on their machines.

Pardon, I call it "borked", but official it's called "experimental".

2 Cents,
Ralf

>
> I hope this quick email helps explain some of the situations in better context.
>
> Please let me know if you have further questions.
>
> ScottL
>
> working within the paradigm of ubuntu
>




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Old 02-18-2012, 11:04 AM
teza
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Hi

Should try.Tango Studio

Regards

Teza.

Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green" <rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit*:
for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?



Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks


*When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.


*Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever.



*I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface...



*With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.


*This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.



I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.



After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.)


*I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.


*I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again.




*The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?




--

Rick Green



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our

safety and our ideals."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009



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Old 03-03-2012, 05:45 AM
"Jose H."
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

So, if I ready correctly:
Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a*productive audio recording and mixing environment.
Why:* * *1) kernel issues
* * *2) driver issues

Options:
* * *1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! *( a new clone of ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option* * *2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all you need * *- realistic option
* * *3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API * * * * * - unrealistic option
Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience. Ubuntu/Linux is supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.*

Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to work !?. We have*ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !, why ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.

Regards


El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza <tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió:


Hi

Should try.Tango Studio

Regards

Teza.

Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green" <rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit*:

for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?



Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks



*When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.



*Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever.



*I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface...



*With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.



*This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.



I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.



After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.)



*I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.



*I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again.





*The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?





--

Rick Green



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our

safety and our ideals."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009



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Old 03-03-2012, 10:24 AM
Hartmut Noack
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:

So, if I ready correctly:


It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you
would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about.




Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and
mixing environment.
Why:
1) kernel issues
2) driver issues


All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations
of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including
Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does
not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus
the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my
Firewire-interface.


Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.
It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and
soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.





Options:
1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! ( a new clone of
ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option


Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands,
for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did
work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to
support the same as good.



2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all
you need - realistic option


Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not
work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others.



3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API - unrealistic
option


I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API" Jack
and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found
a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these
APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is
irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either).




Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience.


*Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this.


Ubuntu/Linux is
supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not
one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.


In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants
did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pureyne? Suse?





Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You
can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS
layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to
work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !


What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your
interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?


Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such
issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion,
that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians....




, why
?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the
kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are
not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.


I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse.

best regards

HZN



Regards



El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió:


Hi
Should try.Tango Studio
Regards
Teza.
Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit :

for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?


Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,
largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado
project. I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. The clean install
wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy
of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I
was up and running. I've used that installation for every recording I've
done since. For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around
its quirks
When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the
latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order
I start up programs. But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more
than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.
Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are
stacking up faster than ever.

I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a
first attempt with the firewire interface...

With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the
ffado-dbus-server. With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server
isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I
restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.
This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test
ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.

I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,
accepting all the defaults for now. When I attempt to start jack, it fails
with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.

After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and
start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server
first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start
ffado-mixer first.)
I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of
whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. About 24
minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),
jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,
too. I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything
jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back
on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. Only then could I tell Ardour
to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport
was messed up. I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<
button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted
capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.
I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl
threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down
at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl
itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding'
message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal
and resort to kill -9 again.

The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see
any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. Have they
gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be
any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?

--
Rick Green

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009

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Old 03-03-2012, 06:40 PM
"saearea-test@yahoo.com"
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Von: Hartmut Noack <zettberlin@linuxuse.de>
An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Gesendet: 12:24 Samstag, 3.März 2012
Betreff: Re: (rant) Is there any hope

Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:
> So, if I ready correctly:

It
would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you
would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about.

>
> Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and
> mixing environment.
> Why:
>* * * 1) kernel issues
>* * * 2) driver issues

All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations
of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including
Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does
not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus
the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my
Firewire-interface.

Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.
It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and
soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as
well.


>
> Options:
>* * * 1) Use a new distro that some say is great !* ( a new clone of
> ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option

Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands,
for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did
work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to
support the same as good.

>* * * 2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all
> you need* * - realistic option

Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not
work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others.

>* * * 3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API* * * * * - unrealistic
> option

I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API"* Jack

and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found
a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these
APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is
irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either).

>
> Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience.

*Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this.

> Ubuntu/Linux is
> supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not
> one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.

In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants
did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pureyne? Suse?


>
> Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You
> can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS
> layer. Even if you have great apps,
for what if you can't get the OS to
> work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !

What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your
interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?

Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such
issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion,
that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians....


> , why
> ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the
> kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are
> not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.

I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse.

best regards

HZN

>
> Regards
>
>
>
> El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com>* escribió:
>
>> Hi
>> Should try.Tango Studio
>> Regards
>> Teza.
>> Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com>* a écrit :
>>
>> for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?
>>>
>>> Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,
>>> largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado
>>> project.* I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS.* The clean install
>>> wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy
>>> of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I
>>> was up and
running.* I've used that installation for every recording I've
>>> done since.* For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around
>>> its quirks
>>>* When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the
>>> latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order
>>> I start up programs.* But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more
>>> than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.
>>>* Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are
>>> stacking up faster than ever.
>>>
>>>* I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a
>>> first attempt with the firewire interface...
>>>
>>>* With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts
the
>>> ffado-dbus-server.* With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server
>>> isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I
>>> restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.
>>>* This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test
>>> ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.
>>>
>>> I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,
>>> accepting all the defaults for now.* When I attempt to start jack, it fails
>>> with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.
>>>
>>> After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and
>>> start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server
>>> first, then jack will actually start! (With
8.04, I HAD to start
>>> ffado-mixer first.)
>>>* I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of
>>> whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time.* About 24
>>> minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),
>>> jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,
>>> too.* I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything
>>> jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back
>>> on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack.* Only then could I tell Ardour
>>> to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport
>>> was messed up.* I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<
>>> button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time
at the end of the aborted
>>> capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.
>>>* I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl
>>> threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down
>>> at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl
>>> itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding'
>>> message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal
>>> and resort to kill -9 again.
>>>
>>>* The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see
>>> any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this.* Have they
>>> gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be
>>> any help to install that and submit bugs against
12.04pre- instead?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Green
>>>
>>> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>>> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>>>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -Benjamin Franklin
>>>
>>> "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
>>> safety and our ideals."
>>>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.**ubuntu.com<Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/**
>>> mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-**studio-users<https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
>


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Hello Hartmut,

could you post the setup of your systems that have always worked? Maybe you have done that already and it is available somewhere in an archive or blog, please send me the URL. Thanks in advance.

On a different topic.
I was getting very tired of listening to the fan noise of my laptop. I had bought an external fan (ZALMAN) onto which I would place the laptop and it was working quite well,
but still: noise. Maybe the open source graphics driver wasn't able to control the fan too well.
I looked for alternatives and considered several options e.g. server and thin client setup, with a server in a different room. Or a tower PC with extra quite fans.
*
For a couple of days now, working on the PC has become a new sensation. I found a completely fan-less system (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/King-Mod-No-Noise-HTPC-Gigabyte-AMD-APU-E350::17711.html). I've added a Samsung SDD and a 21" LED monitor from AOC. Currently I am running xubuntu 11.10.* I haven't tweaked it yet (e.g. 3D graphics drivers, desktop effects, etc.). I was looking for some nice temperature meter on the desktop for xfce, but I think I need compiz for desktop effects first. So far I have a terminal open with "watch sensors", that keeps me updated on the temperature of the system. On the average it is about 50 degrees Celcius, very similar to what I saw on
my laptop with fans.
I learned that when using Gigabyte motherboards and trying to boot from USB sticks is not easily accomplished. But thanks to others sharing their solution, I was able to install xubuntu from a USB stick.
I am not sure whether the CPU power will be enough for more heavyweight kind of work (e.g. video encoding), but general applications (office, browser) are a breeze.
Standby and suspend worked out of the box. Apparently the network card: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 06) can have problems with dual boot Windows (where Windows puts it into sleep during shutdown and the linux driver not being able to wake it up again - or something). I don't have dual boot at the moment, so I cannot comment on that. But I have seen this behavior on a laptop (ASUS, AMD E450) with dual boot .
...
and still: no noise

Just wanted to share.

Cheers,
Stefan

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