(rant) Is there any hope
for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?
Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever. I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface... With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.) I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again. The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? -- Rick Green "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 00:11 -0500, Rick Green wrote:
> [snip] But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack > for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. I always build a kernel-rt myself. At least you should use a full preempted with threadirqs set to the boot parameters. There are just a few developers, such as the 64 Studio people, that build kernel-rt I like. For example Arch Linux kernels fail for my Wi-Fi, they exclude HPET to the rt. Ubuntu Studio 11.10 by default comes with the kernel-generic. If you get xruns, first get a kernel-rt, second check if rtirq set your card to the highest priority. I for example need to add "hdspm": RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc hdspm snd usb i8042" The second might not have significant impact, but the first, a kernel-rt will improve a lot. > [snip] jack inexplicably dies [snip] Did you switch between Jack1 and Jack2? Regards, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 00:11 -0500, Rick Green wrote: [snip] But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. I always build a kernel-rt myself. At least you should use a full preempted with threadirqs set to the boot parameters. There are just a few developers, such as the 64 Studio people, that build kernel-rt I like. For example Arch Linux kernels fail for my Wi-Fi, they exclude HPET to the rt. Ubuntu Studio 11.10 by default comes with the kernel-generic. Yeah, that was the first, worst regression down this slippery slope. What happened? I would think that packaging an -rt kernel would be job 1 for a 'studio' distro. Especially since the RT patches were accepted into mainline. I was comfortable compiling and installing kernels way back in the days of LILO and Linux 1.x, but I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've attempted it since 2.0, and I'm nowhere up to speed on the complexities of grub2 and initrd's, so I'm now dependent on distributor's packages. My portable recording rig runs on an early AMD_64 laptop. The TI firewire and Broadcom Wifi share an IRQ, so I've long ago learned to turn off the Wifi before I start jack. If you get xruns, first get a kernel-rt, second check if rtirq set your card to the highest priority. I for example need to add "hdspm": RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc hdspm snd usb i8042" The second might not have significant impact, but the first, a kernel-rt will improve a lot. [snip] jack inexplicably dies [snip] Did you switch between Jack1 and Jack2? Right now, I've got the default package, ISTR jackdmp v1.9.2 or thereabouts. (the machine's not booted at the moment). This confuses me, I thought jackdmp = jack2, and jackd would show v 1.x.x. My machine is just single-core, so I don't need jackdmp. Is there a package for Jack1, and might it be appropriate to switch to it? -- Rick Green "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Rick Green <rtg@aapsc.com> wrote:
> for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment? > > Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, > largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado > project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install > wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of > the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was > up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done > since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its > quirks > *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the > latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I > start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than > a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. > *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking > up faster than ever. > > *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a > first attempt with the firewire interface... > > *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the > ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server > isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I > restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. > *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test > ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. > > I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, > accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails > with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. > > After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and > start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server > first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer > first.) > *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of > whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 > minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), > jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, > too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything > jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back > on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour > to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport > was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< > button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted > capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. > *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl > threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down > at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl > itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message > from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and > resort to kill -9 again. > > *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see > any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they > gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be > any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? > > -- > Rick Green > > "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little > temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin > > "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our > safety and our ideals." > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hi Rick, I'm Scott Lavender, the Ubuntu Studio Project Leader. I would like to address some of your comments and concerns. Is there any future for Ubuntu Studio as an productive audio recording and mixing environment? Absolutely! Is _this_ the time for Ubuntu Studio? No, not really. Not yet. After a period of severe stagnation, there are many changes in progress and others being planned. In some cases we are making changes to simply fix things and in others we are making changes to shape the direction of Ubuntu Studio. I can't answer specifics about your firewire trouble as I don't have a firewire device, but this is an area I would like to make more stable for 12.04. There are people currently on the team we will be using to test this use case. The kernel issue is a sticky wicket. The RT kernel was pulled from the archives, this was not a decision that the Studio Team could effectively mitigate. The reasons for it's removal were not only numerous but also justified. However, we are working on getting a -lowlatency kernel into the repository, which is based on the stock Ubuntu kernel and doesn't need the invasive, and non-determinately-timed RT patch. Since threading capabilities were added in 2.6.39, we feel that the -lowlatency kernel not only can be maintained easily and aligned with the current Ubuntu kernel version number, but it can also provide the necessary latencies that a majority of users need. Does this mean no one might not need the RT kernel? No, there will most likely be a subset of users who will require it for either hardware or other superlative requirements. One issue we are continuing to resolve in 12.04 is the transition to XFCE, amongst other issues. This means that 11.10 should be considered as completely unpolished and limited in functionality. In an overall sense, I would posit that 12.04 and possibly 12.10 would be the era where we rebuild the stability and basic functionality of Ubuntu Studio in a specific scope. Most likely only certain aspect of these items would need to continue into 12.10. The next phase would ideally see the same attention devoted to improving documentation and tutorials. Getting it fundamentally sound as the fundamental functionality in Ubuntu Studio. The following would then see improvements in the user experience. These might include better pulse audio <-> jack integration (either seemless and transparent or one-click transition) and project automation for work flows (e.g. ladish for audio projects), along with other potential areas. Lastly, I would like for everyone to keep in mind that we work within the ecosystem of Ubuntu. This means that we are restricted to their policies for the repositories, etc. Therefore, we are limited on which packages can ship, e.g. the RT kernel and those that do not comply for licensing reasons. Of course we also get a huge amount of benefit from Ubuntu/Canonical in terms of hosting, image building, testing, ad naseum, so please do not misconstrue that I am resentful of this situation, as my feeling are quite the opposite. But users should recognize that Ubuntu Studio may be limited on what we can either do or the timing of which we can do it in. I hope this quick email helps explain some of the situations in better context. Please let me know if you have further questions. ScottL working within the paradigm of ubuntu -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 12:03 -0500, Rick Green wrote:
> Yeah, that was the first, worst regression down this slippery slope. > What happened? I would think that packaging an -rt kernel would be job 1 > for a 'studio' distro. Especially since the RT patches were accepted into > mainline. I was comfortable compiling and installing kernels way back in > the days of LILO and Linux 1.x, but I could probably count on one hand the > number of times I've attempted it since 2.0, and I'm nowhere up to speed > on the complexities of grub2 and initrd's, so I'm now dependent on > distributor's packages. > My portable recording rig runs on an early AMD_64 laptop. The TI > firewire and Broadcom Wifi share an IRQ, so I've long ago learned to turn > off the Wifi before I start jack. I agree that at least a full preempt kernel with threadirqs set as boot parameter should be available, since the rt patch comes with 3 system calls that only can be used with the proprietary nvidia driver, if the GPL will be offended. OTOH even if there shouldn't be this license issue, you won't get perfect orthopedic shoes off the shelf and I've seen some pre-build kernel-rt that where build with myths at the back of the maintainer's mind. Those kernels are useless for all of my needs, e.g. the Arch's kernel-rt that comes without hrtimer/HPET module. I'm using GRUB legacy, but I compiled kernel-rt for usage with GRUB2 like this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg01985.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg02032.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/thrd5.html > Right now, I've got the default package, ISTR jackdmp v1.9.2 or > thereabouts. (the machine's not booted at the moment). This confuses me, > I thought jackdmp = jack2, and jackd would show v 1.x.x. My machine is > just single-core, so I don't need jackdmp. Is there a package for Jack1, > and might it be appropriate to switch to it? Open Synaptic and use the "Quick filter" to search for "jackd". It will then show you "jackd2" and "jackd1" packages. The package "jackd" is a dummy, all apps needing jackd depend to that dummy and not directly to jackd1 or jackd2. Regards, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
On Wed, 2012-02-15 at 13:02 -0600, Scott Lavender wrote:
> The following would then see improvements in the user experience. > These might include better pulse audio <-> jack integration (either > seemless and transparent or one-click transition) and project > automation for work flows (e.g. ladish for audio projects), along with > other potential areas. You are aware that many sound cards don't have audio output when pulseaudio is installed, even if it's killed? I need my sound card also when jackd isn't running. Those ugly session handlers need a patched version of jackd. I hope you don't add the "refuse-connections-patch" as a default to jackd. LTS versions shouldn't have flaws. I only installed Oneiric because I can't wait until April. I suddenly get a job and have no time to set up Arch Linux to become a DAW. If I would have more time, I would prefer Arch Linux at the moment and wait for the release of the next LTS of Ubuntu in April. > Lastly, I would like for everyone to keep in mind that we work within > the ecosystem of Ubuntu. This means that we are restricted to their > policies for the repositories, etc. Therefore, we are limited on > which packages can ship, e.g. the RT kernel and those that do not > comply for licensing reasons. Of course we also get a huge amount of > benefit from Ubuntu/Canonical in terms of hosting, image building, > testing, ad naseum, so please do not misconstrue that I am resentful > of this situation, as my feeling are quite the opposite. But users > should recognize that Ubuntu Studio may be limited on what we can > either do or the timing of which we can do it in. There wouldn't be licensing issues if you would add the FLOSS nv graphics driver. The nouveau driver anyway is borked and doesn't work for half of the community. Some people might need the FLOSS nv or proprietary nvidia driver if hard real time is needed, even if the nouveau driver should work on their machines. Pardon, I call it "borked", but official it's called "experimental". 2 Cents, Ralf > > I hope this quick email helps explain some of the situations in better context. > > Please let me know if you have further questions. > > ScottL > > working within the paradigm of ubuntu > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
Hi
Should try.Tango Studio Regards Teza. Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green" <rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit*: for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment? Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever. *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface... *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.) *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again. *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? -- Rick Green "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
So, if I ready correctly:
Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a*productive audio recording and mixing environment. Why:* * *1) kernel issues * * *2) driver issues Options: * * *1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! *( a new clone of ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option* * *2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all you need * *- realistic option * * *3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API * * * * * - unrealistic option Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience. Ubuntu/Linux is supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.* Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to work !?. We have*ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !, why ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio. Regards El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza <tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió: Hi Should try.Tango Studio Regards Teza. Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green" <rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit*: for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment? Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever. *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface... *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.) *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again. *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? -- Rick Green "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- "A los animales, a los que hemos hecho nuestros esclavos, no nos gusta considerarlos nuestros iguales." * - Charles Darwin -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:
So, if I ready correctly: It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about. Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and mixing environment. Why: 1) kernel issues 2) driver issues All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my Firewire-interface. Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great. It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well. Options: 1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! ( a new clone of ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands, for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to support the same as good. 2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all you need - realistic option Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others. 3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API - unrealistic option I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API" Jack and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either). Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience. *Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this. Ubuntu/Linux is supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected. In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pure:Dyne? Suse? Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work ! What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX? Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion, that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians.... , why ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio. I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse. best regards HZN Regards El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió: Hi Should try.Tango Studio Regards Teza. Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit : for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment? Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever. I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface... With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.) I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again. The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? -- Rick Green "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.**ubuntu.com<Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/** mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-**studio-users<https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users> -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
(rant) Is there any hope
Von: Hartmut Noack <zettberlin@linuxuse.de>
An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Gesendet: 12:24 Samstag, 3.März 2012 Betreff: Re: (rant) Is there any hope Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.: > So, if I ready correctly: It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about. > > Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and > mixing environment. > Why: >* * * 1) kernel issues >* * * 2) driver issues All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my Firewire-interface. Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great. It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well. > > Options: >* * * 1) Use a new distro that some say is great !* ( a new clone of > ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands, for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to support the same as good. >* * * 2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all > you need* * - realistic option Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others. >* * * 3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API* * * * * - unrealistic > option I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API"* Jack and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either). > > Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience. *Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this. > Ubuntu/Linux is > supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not > one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected. In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pure:Dyne? Suse? > > Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You > can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS > layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to > work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work ! What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX? Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion, that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians.... > , why > ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the > kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are > not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio. I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse. best regards HZN > > Regards > > > > El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com>* escribió: > >> Hi >> Should try.Tango Studio >> Regards >> Teza. >> Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com>* a écrit : >> >> for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment? >>> >>> Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, >>> largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado >>> project.* I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS.* The clean install >>> wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy >>> of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I >>> was up and running.* I've used that installation for every recording I've >>> done since.* For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around >>> its quirks >>>* When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the >>> latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order >>> I start up programs.* But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more >>> than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof. >>>* Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are >>> stacking up faster than ever. >>> >>>* I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a >>> first attempt with the firewire interface... >>> >>>* With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the >>> ffado-dbus-server.* With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server >>> isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I >>> restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'. >>>* This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test >>> ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1. >>> >>> I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, >>> accepting all the defaults for now.* When I attempt to start jack, it fails >>> with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message. >>> >>> After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and >>> start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server >>> first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start >>> ffado-mixer first.) >>>* I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of >>> whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time.* About 24 >>> minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), >>> jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, >>> too.* I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything >>> jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back >>> on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack.* Only then could I tell Ardour >>> to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport >>> was messed up.* I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< >>> button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted >>> capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect. >>>* I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl >>> threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down >>> at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl >>> itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' >>> message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal >>> and resort to kill -9 again. >>> >>>* The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see >>> any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this.* Have they >>> gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be >>> any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead? >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Green >>> >>> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little >>> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." >>>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -Benjamin Franklin >>> >>> "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our >>> safety and our ideals." >>>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009 >>> >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list >>> Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.**ubuntu.com<Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com> >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/** >>> mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-**studio-users<https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users> >>> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list >> Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users >> >> > > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hello Hartmut, could you post the setup of your systems that have always worked? Maybe you have done that already and it is available somewhere in an archive or blog, please send me the URL. Thanks in advance. On a different topic. I was getting very tired of listening to the fan noise of my laptop. I had bought an external fan (ZALMAN) onto which I would place the laptop and it was working quite well, but still: noise. Maybe the open source graphics driver wasn't able to control the fan too well. I looked for alternatives and considered several options e.g. server and thin client setup, with a server in a different room. Or a tower PC with extra quite fans. * For a couple of days now, working on the PC has become a new sensation. I found a completely fan-less system (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/King-Mod-No-Noise-HTPC-Gigabyte-AMD-APU-E350::17711.html). I've added a Samsung SDD and a 21" LED monitor from AOC. Currently I am running xubuntu 11.10.* I haven't tweaked it yet (e.g. 3D graphics drivers, desktop effects, etc.). I was looking for some nice temperature meter on the desktop for xfce, but I think I need compiz for desktop effects first. So far I have a terminal open with "watch sensors", that keeps me updated on the temperature of the system. On the average it is about 50 degrees Celcius, very similar to what I saw on my laptop with fans. I learned that when using Gigabyte motherboards and trying to boot from USB sticks is not easily accomplished. But thanks to others sharing their solution, I was able to install xubuntu from a USB stick. I am not sure whether the CPU power will be enough for more heavyweight kind of work (e.g. video encoding), but general applications (office, browser) are a breeze. Standby and suspend worked out of the box. Apparently the network card: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 06) can have problems with dual boot Windows (where Windows puts it into sleep during shutdown and the linux driver not being able to wake it up again - or something). I don't have dual boot at the moment, so I cannot comment on that. But I have seen this behavior on a laptop (ASUS, AMD E450) with dual boot . ... and still: no noise :) Just wanted to share. Cheers, Stefan -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users |
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