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Old 03-03-2012, 07:03 PM
Hartmut Noack
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Am 03.03.2012 20:40, schrieb saearea-test@yahoo.com:







________________________________
Von: Hartmut Noack<zettberlin@linuxuse.de>
An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Gesendet: 12:24 Samstag, 3.März 2012
Betreff: Re: (rant) Is there any hope

Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:

So, if I ready correctly:


It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you
would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about.



Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and
mixing environment.
Why:
1) kernel issues
2) driver issues


All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations
of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including
Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does
not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus
the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my
Firewire-interface.

Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.
It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and
soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.




Options:
1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! ( a new clone of
ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option


Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands,
for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did
work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to
support the same as good.


2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all
you need - realistic option


Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not
work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others.


3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API - unrealistic
option


I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API" Jack
and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found
a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these
APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is
irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either).



Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience.


*Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this.


Ubuntu/Linux is
supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not
one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.


In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants
did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pureyne? Suse?




Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You
can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS
layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to
work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !


What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your
interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?

Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such
issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion,
that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians....



, why
?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the
kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are
not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.


I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse.

best regards

HZN



Regards



El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió:


Hi
Should try.Tango Studio
Regards
Teza.
Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit :

for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?


Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,
largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado
project. I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. The clean install
wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy
of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I
was up and running. I've used that installation for every recording I've
done since. For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around
its quirks
When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the
latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order
I start up programs. But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more
than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.
Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are
stacking up faster than ever.

I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a
first attempt with the firewire interface...

With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the
ffado-dbus-server. With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server
isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I
restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.
This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test
ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.

I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,
accepting all the defaults for now. When I attempt to start jack, it fails
with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.

After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and
start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server
first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start
ffado-mixer first.)
I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of
whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. About 24
minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),
jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,
too. I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything
jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back
on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. Only then could I tell Ardour
to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport
was messed up. I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<
button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted
capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.
I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl
threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down
at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl
itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding'
message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal
and resort to kill -9 again.

The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see
any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. Have they
gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be
any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?

--
Rick Green

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009

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Hello Hartmut,

could you post the setup of your systems that have always worked?


PC
with Asus-Board and IntelQuadcore
NVidia-Graphics(prop. drivers)
MAudio Audiophile 2496 (does not work well with PA, perfectly with ALSA
and Jack. Since KXStudio bridges PA to Jack and starts Jack by default,
this is no issue to be solved by hand anymore))
Presonus Firebox (trouble can be caused by some FW-Chipsets, works best
with the built-in of the ASUS)

MAudio mobile Pre USB (Jack needs to be forced to use 16bit)

I use the MAudio mobile with a Thinkpad T60 also, works out of the box
in Fedora+CCRMA and Suse


best regards

HZN





Maybe you have done that already and it is available somewhere in an archive or blog, please send me the URL. Thanks in advance.


On a different topic.
I was getting very tired of listening to the fan noise of my laptop. I had bought an external fan (ZALMAN) onto which I would place the laptop and it was working quite well, but still: noise. Maybe the open source graphics driver wasn't able to control the fan too well.
I looked for alternatives and considered several options e.g. server and thin client setup, with a server in a different room. Or a tower PC with extra quite fans.

For a couple of days now, working on the PC has become a new sensation. I found a completely fan-less system (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/King-Mod-No-Noise-HTPC-Gigabyte-AMD-APU-E350::17711.html). I've added a Samsung SDD and a 21" LED monitor from AOC. Currently I am running xubuntu 11.10. I haven't tweaked it yet (e.g. 3D graphics drivers, desktop effects, etc.). I was looking for some nice temperature meter on the desktop for xfce, but I think I need compiz for desktop effects first. So far I have a terminal open with "watch sensors", that keeps me updated on the temperature of the system. On the average it is about 50 degrees Celcius, very similar to what I saw on my laptop with fans.
I learned that when using Gigabyte motherboards and trying to boot from USB sticks is not easily accomplished. But thanks to others sharing their solution, I was able to install xubuntu from a USB stick.
I am not sure whether the CPU power will be enough for more heavyweight kind of work (e.g. video encoding), but general applications (office, browser) are a breeze.
Standby and suspend worked out of the box. Apparently the network card: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 06) can have problems with dual boot Windows (where Windows puts it into sleep during shutdown and the linux driver not being able to wake it up again - or something). I don't have dual boot at the moment, so I cannot comment on that. But I have seen this behavior on a laptop (ASUS, AMD E450) with dual boot .
...
and still: no noise

Just wanted to share.

Cheers,
Stefan






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Old 03-03-2012, 07:56 PM
teza
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Hi

Mabe you should try Tango Studio

Cheerd

Teza

Le 3 mars 2012 06:45, "Jose H." <joseche@gmail.com> a écrit*:
So, if I ready correctly:
Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a*productive audio recording and mixing environment.

Why:* * *1) kernel issues

* * *2) driver issues

Options:
* * *1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! *( a new clone of ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option* * *2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all you need * *- realistic option

* * *3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API * * * * * - unrealistic option
Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience. Ubuntu/Linux is supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.*


Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to work !?. We have*ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !, why ?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.


Regards


El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza <tezalprod@gmail.com> escribió:



Hi

Should try.Tango Studio

Regards

Teza.

Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green" <rtg@aapsc.com> a écrit*:


for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?



Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface, largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around its quirks




*When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.




*Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are stacking up faster than ever.



*I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a first attempt with the firewire interface...



*With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.




*This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.



I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver, accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.



After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start ffado-mixer first.)




*I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24 minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!), jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up, too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<< button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.




*I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding' message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal and resort to kill -9 again.






*The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?






--

Rick Green



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our

safety and our ideals."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009



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--
"A los animales, a los que hemos hecho nuestros esclavos, no nos gusta considerarlos nuestros iguales."

* - Charles Darwin




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Old 03-04-2012, 10:39 AM
daniel murray
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Hello,

I switched from Windows years ago - will never go back...here's my list of hardware that I use that always works:

e-machine AMD64 (2.4ghz)
1 GB Ram
160 GB HD Sata 1
M-Audio AudioPhile USB (version 1, 16 bit only)

NVidia graphics chipset (imbedded)
realtek embedded sound card (TURNED OFF!!)
realtek NIC 100MB

e-machine intel p4 2.4 ghz
1 gb ram
80 gb HD sata 1
M-Audio Audiophile PCI 24/96
intel graphics chipset

realtek NIC 100MB
asus MB
realtek embedded sound card (TURNED OFF!!)

Asus one netbook (LMAO!!)
2 core atom 1ghz cpu
1 GB ram
8 GB hd (5400 rpm - lmao)
8 GB sd (the bad transend sd cards)
intel graphics chipset

b43 wireless
realtek NIC

intel iMac (circa 2007)
1 GB Ram
160 GB sata 1 HD
intel HDA sound card
ATI Raedeon 1600XT
intel NIC 1000GB
b43 wireless

I'm running 11.10 and 10.04 with low-latency kernels. I even use netjack alond with the sneaky ssh -X to link in with other PC's in the studio.


Yes there is hope.

Cheers, Daniel.


On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Hartmut Noack <zettberlin@linuxuse.de> wrote:

Am 03.03.2012 20:40, schrieb saearea-test@yahoo.com:














________________________________

Von: Hartmut Noack<zettberlin@linuxuse.de>

An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com

Gesendet: 12:24 Samstag, 3.März 2012

Betreff: Re: (rant) Is there any hope



Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:


So, if I ready correctly:




It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you

would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about.






Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and

mixing environment.

Why:

* * * *1) kernel issues

* * * *2) driver issues




All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations

of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including

Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does

not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus

the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my

Firewire-interface.



Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.

It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and

soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.








Options:

* * * *1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! *( a new clone of

ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option




Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands,

for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did

work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to

support the same as good.




* * * *2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all

you need * *- realistic option




Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not

work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others.




* * * *3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API * * * * * - unrealistic

option




I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API" *Jack

and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found

a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these

APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is

irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either).






Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience.




*Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this.




Ubuntu/Linux is

supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not

one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.




In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants

did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pureyne? Suse?








Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You

can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS

layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to

work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !




What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your

interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?



Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such

issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion,

that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians....






, why

?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the

kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are

not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.




I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse.



best regards



HZN






Regards







El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com> * escribió:




Hi

Should try.Tango Studio

Regards

Teza.

Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com> * a écrit :



for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?




Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,

largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado

project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install

wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy

of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I

was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've

done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around

its quirks

* *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the

latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order

I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more

than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.

* *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are

stacking up faster than ever.



* *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a

first attempt with the firewire interface...



* *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the

ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server

isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I

restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.

* *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test

ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.



I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,

accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails

with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.



After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and

start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server

first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start

ffado-mixer first.)

* *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of

whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24

minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),

jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,

too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything

jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back

on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour

to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport

was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<

button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted

capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.

* *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl

threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down

at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl

itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding'

message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal

and resort to kill -9 again.



* *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see

any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they

gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be

any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?



--

Rick Green



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our

safety and our ideals."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009



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Hello Hartmut,



could you post the setup of your systems that have always worked?




PC

with Asus-Board and IntelQuadcore

NVidia-Graphics(prop. drivers)

MAudio Audiophile 2496 (does not work well with PA, perfectly with ALSA and Jack. Since KXStudio bridges PA to Jack and starts Jack by default, this is no issue to be solved by hand anymore))

Presonus Firebox (trouble can be caused by some FW-Chipsets, works best with the built-in of the ASUS)

MAudio mobile Pre USB (Jack needs to be forced to use 16bit)



I use the MAudio mobile with a Thinkpad T60 also, works out of the box in Fedora+CCRMA and Suse



best regards



HZN










Maybe you have done that already and it is available somewhere in an archive or blog, please send me the URL. Thanks in advance.




On a different topic.

I was getting very tired of listening to the fan noise of my laptop. I had bought an external fan (ZALMAN) onto which I would place the laptop and it was working quite well, but still: noise. Maybe the open source graphics driver wasn't able to control the fan too well.


I looked for alternatives and considered several options e.g. server and thin client setup, with a server in a different room. Or a tower PC with extra quite fans.



For a couple of days now, working on the PC has become a new sensation. I found a completely fan-less system (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/King-Mod-No-Noise-HTPC-Gigabyte-AMD-APU-E350::17711.html). I've added a Samsung SDD and a 21" LED monitor from AOC. Currently I am running xubuntu 11.10. *I haven't tweaked it yet (e.g. 3D graphics drivers, desktop effects, etc.). I was looking for some nice temperature meter on the desktop for xfce, but I think I need compiz for desktop effects first. So far I have a terminal open with "watch sensors", that keeps me updated on the temperature of the system. On the average it is about 50 degrees Celcius, very similar to what I saw on my laptop with fans.


I learned that when using Gigabyte motherboards and trying to boot from USB sticks is not easily accomplished. But thanks to others sharing their solution, I was able to install xubuntu from a USB stick.

I am not sure whether the CPU power will be enough for more heavyweight kind of work (e.g. video encoding), but general applications (office, browser) are a breeze.

Standby and suspend worked out of the box. Apparently the network card: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 06) can have problems with dual boot Windows (where Windows puts it into sleep during shutdown and the linux driver not being able to wake it up again - or something). I don't have dual boot at the moment, so I cannot comment on that. But I have seen this behavior on a laptop (ASUS, AMD E450) with dual boot .


...

and still: no noise



Just wanted to share.



Cheers,

Stefan












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Old 03-04-2012, 11:55 PM
"Jose H."
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

Why:

* * *1) kernel issues

* * *2) driver issues




All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my Firewire-interface.




Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.

It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.

I will be really really really interested on the real statistics. Ubuntu/Linux doesn't have support for very popular devices, for example Line 6. Also applications have conflicts with sound servers, Jack + Pulseaudio for example.

*
What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?



I really challenge you to find one popular external sound interface that is not supported in MacOSX.*


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Old 03-05-2012, 01:15 AM
Daniel Worth
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

I will be really really really interested on the real statistics. Ubuntu/Linux doesn't have support for very popular devices, for example Line 6. Also applications have conflicts with sound servers, Jack + Pulseaudio for example.

Driver support under Linux is an issue with the vendors not with Linux itself. I hear this complaining on lists all the time and it's preaching to the choir. The people you should be ranting at are the manufacturers not the guys fighting to make things work out of nothing. Also, you are being silly if you think it's that hard to find a reasonable external sound card that is supported under Linux, you aren't trying hard enough.


The pulse jack issues is probably the easiest problem I've had to overcome since moving to 100% linux 6 years ago. I'm sick of people acting like they are getting martyred every time they have to stop one sound server and start another.


Most people don't even know why a kernel is and issue before they start bitching about how they NEED to have hard realtime. If you ABSOLUTELY need it then you will take the time to figure out how to make it happen although I suspect that said person would need to do more research on what kind of latency you actually need to worry about.


If you select hardware with some care and are willing to learn it's a fun and rewarding experience, if you want everything to be magically easy then you picked the wrong platform. Linux might be a be a bit of a walled garden but there are ways in and those of us on the inside are super happy. The vast majority of things that people do with audio production are there for the using and the very few things that aren't I haven't really cared about in a long time. These lists aren't for people to have people to yell at that don't like this or that. Buck up or GTFO. If you wan't to learn there is a vast and deep well of extremely knowledgeable and talented people very willing to help. If you want to pine on about how this or that sucks then be happy using some other software.


These lists aren't for people to solve all your problems they are to point you in the right direction to figuring it out on your own. The community doesn't owe anyone anything. We all had to spend time googling to figure things out too and are happy and better for the process.


Might be harsh but I'm sick of trying to convince people that Linux and FLOSS are worth it. Either you "get it" or you don't.

Dan

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Old 03-12-2012, 04:09 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

I have been a jack users since pretty much the beginning. *The key is in choosing hardware from vendors who are not hostile to open source OSs. *I am a huge fan of my RME 9652 and RME ADI 8-DS, *This hardware has worked out of the box on the last 3 machines used (an AMD 4400+, an Intel Core2 duo, and a Sandybridge based Intel). *When I can no longer use a PCI card, I will do what I did before, research hardware components that are supported.


It sucks that we have to do this,*unfortunately*there is not a lot that can be done if the hardware vendors provide no assistance. *Even a company like RME that has in the past been very cooperative may not always be so (the Fireface is notorious for not working).


There is always a price for freedom.

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM, daniel murray <danielmurray01@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello,

I switched from Windows years ago - will never go back...here's my list of hardware that I use that always works:



e-machine AMD64 (2.4ghz)
1 GB Ram
160 GB HD Sata 1
M-Audio AudioPhile USB (version 1, 16 bit only)

NVidia graphics chipset (imbedded)
realtek embedded sound card (TURNED OFF!!)
realtek NIC 100MB

e-machine intel p4 2.4 ghz
1 gb ram
80 gb HD sata 1
M-Audio Audiophile PCI 24/96
intel graphics chipset



realtek NIC 100MB
asus MB
realtek embedded sound card (TURNED OFF!!)

Asus one netbook (LMAO!!)
2 core atom 1ghz cpu
1 GB ram
8 GB hd (5400 rpm - lmao)
8 GB sd (the bad transend sd cards)
intel graphics chipset



b43 wireless
realtek NIC

intel iMac (circa 2007)
1 GB Ram
160 GB sata 1 HD
intel HDA sound card
ATI Raedeon 1600XT
intel NIC 1000GB
b43 wireless

I'm running 11.10 and 10.04 with low-latency kernels. I even use netjack alond with the sneaky ssh -X to link in with other PC's in the studio.




Yes there is hope.

Cheers, Daniel.


On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Hartmut Noack <zettberlin@linuxuse.de> wrote:



Am 03.03.2012 20:40, schrieb saearea-test@yahoo.com:
















________________________________

Von: Hartmut Noack<zettberlin@linuxuse.de>

An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com

Gesendet: 12:24 Samstag, 3.März 2012

Betreff: Re: (rant) Is there any hope



Am 03.03.2012 07:45, schrieb Jose H.:


So, if I ready correctly:




It would be much easier to find out, what it is, that you read, if you

would not top-post but point us to what you are talking about.






Ubuntu Studio is not, and will not be a productive audio recording and

mixing environment.

Why:

* * * *1) kernel issues

* * * *2) driver issues




All this applies to Ubuntu Studio in some cases with some combinations

of hardware. It does not apply to many other Linux-Variants, including

Ubuntu-derivates like KXStudio. And as far as I am concerned, it does

not apply to my setup, that simply works perfectly well with Ubuntu plus

the KX-Layer. And so does my Laptop. And my USB-interface and my

Firewire-interface.



Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.

It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and

soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.








Options:

* * * *1) Use a new distro that some say is great ! *( a new clone of

ubuntu/debian/etc.. ) - not really a good option




Fedora, Suse, Debian vanilla: I made music with all of them, with bands,

for video everything everybody does with music on computers, all did

work OK for me. And yes: some did work for setups Ubuntu failed to

support the same as good.




* * * *2) Just install Windows and be able to do some of the stuff, maybe all

you need * *- realistic option




Do, as thou wishest but please consider to accept, that Linux did not

work for *you* and *your* setup. It does work for many others.




* * * *3) Wait until Linux has a decent Sound API * * * * * - unrealistic

option




I do not really understand, what you mean by "a decent Sound API" *Jack

and ALSA are consolidated and seam to work (last time I checked I found

a few hundred applications and devices that worked good with these

APIs). And everything else, that may exist in Linux regarding sound is

irrelevant for musicians (and it does not interfere anymore either).






Well, that conclusion is sound with my own experience.




*Your own* experience -- thanks for pointing to this.




Ubuntu/Linux is

supposed to be better than other OSs but definitely music production is not

one of those fields in which it gets even to the minimum expected.




In *Your own* experience it may be so. BTW: what other Linux-Variants

did you test? Fedora+CCRMA? Pureyne? Suse?








Personally I think this is because we don't have a firm base to build. You

can't expect to have great user apps if you can't even have a good OS

layer. Even if you have great apps, for what if you can't get the OS to

work !?. We have ZynAddSubFX, but your sound card just doesn't work !




What if you have Logic on your IBook running MacOSX but alas! Your

interface does not come with a driver compatible to that version of MacOSX?



Try Google, chances are, you find more than one thread discussing such

issues, lesser chance though, that such threads end with the conclusion,

that MacOSX would be entirely unusable for musicians....






, why

?, maybe because pulseaudio, maybe because the driver, maybe because the

kernel or maybe because the modules you load ?, or maybe because you are

not tired of linux and you just want to play and forget about Ubuntu Studio.




I recommend indeed to abandon Ubuntu Studio and try Fedora or Suse.



best regards



HZN






Regards







El 18 de febrero de 2012 06:04, teza<tezalprod@gmail.com> * escribió:




Hi

Should try.Tango Studio

Regards

Teza.

Le 15 févr. 2012 05:11, "Rick Green"<rtg@aapsc.com> * a écrit :



for Ubuntu Studio as a productive audio recording and mixing environment?




Four years ago, I bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 firewire interface,

largely because it was listed as one of the best-supported by the ffado

project. *I loaded up a copy of UbuntuStudio 8.04LTS. *The clean install

wouldn't talk to the interface, but after I obtained a bleeding-edge copy

of the ffado source from one of the developers, and recompiled locally, I

was up and running. *I've used that installation for every recording I've

done since. *For the most part it's stable, and I've learned to work-around

its quirks

* *When 10.04 came out, I thought I'd upgrade, thinking I'd like to see the

latest enhancements to Ardour, and it might be more forgiving of the order

I start up programs. *But 10.04 wasn't stable enough to run jack for more

than a few minutes before the xrun count went thru the roof.

* *Since then, I've tried every new release, and the regressions are

stacking up faster than ever.



* *I recently did a clean install of 11.10 (amd64), and tonight gave it a

first attempt with the firewire interface...



* *With 8.04, I start ffado-mixer, and it automatically starts the

ffado-dbus-server. *With this one, it merely complains that the dbus server

isn't running, so I'm forced to open a terminal and start it, then when I

restart ffado-mixer, it tells me 'no supported devices found'.

* *This isn't exactly true, for when I go to a terminal and run ffado-test

ListDevices, it clearly finds my focusrite pro26IO on node 1.



I launch qjackctl, open the setup window, and select the firewire driver,

accepting all the defaults for now. *When I attempt to start jack, it fails

with a 'cannot connect to server as client' message.



After many attempts and reboots, I discover that if I start qjackctl and

start jack without attempting to start ffado-mixer or ffado-dbus-server

first, then jack will actually start! (With 8.04, I HAD to start

ffado-mixer first.)

* *I launch Ardour, open a new session, and start to record two tracks of

whatever audio happened to be playing on the stereo at the time. *About 24

minutes later, just as I'm getting complacent with no xruns recorded(!),

jack inexplicably dies, but qjackctl doesn't know it, so it is locked up,

too. *I ended up having to go back to the terminal and kill -9 everything

jack-related I could find, then power down my interface, and power it back

on, then restart qjackctl, and finally jack. *Only then could I tell Ardour

to reconnect and save the session, but for some reason Ardour's transport

was messed up. *I could move the playhead either directly, or with the |<<

button, but the 'Big Clock' still showed the time at the end of the aborted

capture, and the 'play' button or the spacebar had no effect.

* *I closed Ardour, then went to stop jack and close qjackctl, and qjackctl

threw messages about a client still connected (Ardour was already shut down

at this point), and after I press the 'close anyway' button, then qjackctl

itself refuses to quit cleanly, and I get a 'program not responding'

message from the window manager, and I'm forced to go back to the terminal

and resort to kill -9 again.



* *The developers are over halfway into the 12.04 cycle now, so I don't see

any point in submitting bug reports against 11.10 for all this. *Have they

gotten to the point of publishing any pre-builds of 12.04, and would it be

any help to install that and submit bugs against 12.04pre- instead?



--

Rick Green



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our

safety and our ideals."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009



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Hello Hartmut,



could you post the setup of your systems that have always worked?




PC

with Asus-Board and IntelQuadcore

NVidia-Graphics(prop. drivers)

MAudio Audiophile 2496 (does not work well with PA, perfectly with ALSA and Jack. Since KXStudio bridges PA to Jack and starts Jack by default, this is no issue to be solved by hand anymore))

Presonus Firebox (trouble can be caused by some FW-Chipsets, works best with the built-in of the ASUS)

MAudio mobile Pre USB (Jack needs to be forced to use 16bit)



I use the MAudio mobile with a Thinkpad T60 also, works out of the box in Fedora+CCRMA and Suse



best regards



HZN










Maybe you have done that already and it is available somewhere in an archive or blog, please send me the URL. Thanks in advance.




On a different topic.

I was getting very tired of listening to the fan noise of my laptop. I had bought an external fan (ZALMAN) onto which I would place the laptop and it was working quite well, but still: noise. Maybe the open source graphics driver wasn't able to control the fan too well.




I looked for alternatives and considered several options e.g. server and thin client setup, with a server in a different room. Or a tower PC with extra quite fans.



For a couple of days now, working on the PC has become a new sensation. I found a completely fan-less system (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/King-Mod-No-Noise-HTPC-Gigabyte-AMD-APU-E350::17711.html). I've added a Samsung SDD and a 21" LED monitor from AOC. Currently I am running xubuntu 11.10. *I haven't tweaked it yet (e.g. 3D graphics drivers, desktop effects, etc.). I was looking for some nice temperature meter on the desktop for xfce, but I think I need compiz for desktop effects first. So far I have a terminal open with "watch sensors", that keeps me updated on the temperature of the system. On the average it is about 50 degrees Celcius, very similar to what I saw on my laptop with fans.




I learned that when using Gigabyte motherboards and trying to boot from USB sticks is not easily accomplished. But thanks to others sharing their solution, I was able to install xubuntu from a USB stick.

I am not sure whether the CPU power will be enough for more heavyweight kind of work (e.g. video encoding), but general applications (office, browser) are a breeze.

Standby and suspend worked out of the box. Apparently the network card: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 06) can have problems with dual boot Windows (where Windows puts it into sleep during shutdown and the linux driver not being able to wake it up again - or something). I don't have dual boot at the moment, so I cannot comment on that. But I have seen this behavior on a laptop (ASUS, AMD E450) with dual boot .




...

and still: no noise



Just wanted to share.



Cheers,

Stefan












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Old 03-12-2012, 05:23 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Jose H. <joseche@gmail.com> wrote



Sorry folks, I really cant help but say: it works for me, just great.

It does for about 8 years now, with maybe a dozen different machines and soundcards. And for some friends of mine it does so as well.

I will be really really really interested on the real statistics. Ubuntu/Linux doesn't have support for very popular devices, for example Line 6. Also applications have conflicts with sound servers, Jack + Pulseaudio for example.




For supported devices these are the two sites you should check first:
http://www.ffado.org/?q=devicesupport/list

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main



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Old 03-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 11:09 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> When I can no longer use a PCI card, I will do what I did before,
> research hardware components that are supported.

I own a RME HDSPe AIO since around 10 month. No serious work until now,
but this RME PCI express card seems to be ok.

hdspmixer does work, hdspconf doesn't work. I suspect alsamixer doesn't
support all options given by hdspconf, but I guess there aren't serious
limits without hdspconf.

I ordered a b-stock, customers return for 478,-€, 3 years warranty, at
a well known German retailer.

Since I don't had enough money to buy more RME components, I
additionally ordered a Behringer ADA8000 ADAT device brand-new for
169,-€. I also didn't use it for serious work until now, but I guess it
isn't a good device.

The RME doesn't work, if pulseaudio is enabled. Ubuntu Studio Oneiric
comes without hdspmixer and I just used a foreign package and run into
issues. I don't have any issues for other Linux installs.

- Ralf


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Old 03-27-2012, 04:12 PM
Rick Green
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

I see some light up ahead in the tunnel!

About once a week since Beta 1 came out at the beginning of the month,
I've been downloading and trying out the daily build of 12.04.


Today, I saw the best 'out of the box' experience with a live DVD ever!

I booted the DVD on my AMD64 laptop, launched qjackctl, opened the 'setup'
window, selected the 'firewire' driver, clicked OK, accepting all other
defults. Clicked 'start', and jack found my focusrite (pro26io) interface
and started up.
I launched Ardour, created a new session, added two mono tracks, plugged
in an available source of audio, and started recording. The recording ran
for 25 minutes with NO xruns until the ramdisk filled up. It stopped
recording, threw up a message log window, but DID NOT crash jack.
I 'rewound' the playhead, hit play. Switched to a second desktop,
launched ffado-mixer. It threw a message about inability to connect to
the dbus server, but succeeded when I hit 'retry'. I tweaked some of the
output mixer settings, and I hear clean audio coming from my monitors.


This is a base level of stability and pre-configuration that I expect
from a distro, but have never seen in any distro up to this day. Kudos to
the team!


--
Rick Green

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009

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Old 03-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Scott Lavender
 
Default (rant) Is there any hope

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Rick Green <rtg@aapsc.com> wrote:
> I see some light up ahead in the tunnel!
>
> About once a week since Beta 1 came out at the beginning of the month, I've
> been downloading and trying out the daily build of 12.04.
>
> Today, I saw the best 'out of the box' experience with a live DVD ever!
>
> I booted the DVD on my AMD64 laptop, launched qjackctl, opened the 'setup'
> window, selected the 'firewire' driver, clicked OK, accepting all other
> defults. *Clicked 'start', and jack found my focusrite (pro26io) interface
> and started up.
> *I launched Ardour, created a new session, added two mono tracks, plugged in
> an available source of audio, and started recording. *The recording ran for
> 25 minutes with NO xruns until the ramdisk filled up. *It stopped recording,
> threw up a message log window, but DID NOT crash jack.
> *I 'rewound' the playhead, hit play. *Switched to a second desktop, launched
> ffado-mixer. *It threw a message about inability to connect to the dbus
> server, but succeeded when I hit 'retry'. *I tweaked some of the output
> mixer settings, and I hear clean audio coming from my monitors.
>
> *This is a base level of stability and pre-configuration that I expect from
> a distro, but have never seen in any distro up to this day. *Kudos to the
> team!
>
> --
> Rick Green
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-Benjamin Franklin
>
> "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
> safety and our ideals."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
>
> --
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users

thank you rick for your comments.

we have been working hard to make this release something special (with
more plans in the future) and being recognized for the improvements is
very appreciated!

thanks again,
scottl

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