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Old 02-12-2012, 10:51 AM
Janne Jokitalo
 
Default What exactley is Ubuntu Studio related and what not? Was: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 repositories + an Ubuntu providing WLAN spport

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:37:10PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 13:21 +0200, Janne Jokitalo wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 01:32:12AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > I'm missing a mailing list for Mint, so I join a German forum. I
> > > installed Mint Lisa - KDE 64-bit. KDE freeze after login and Xfce
> > > doesn't show nm-applet. Changing the mouse cursor theme doesn't work.
> > <snip>
> > > Haven't installed Ubuntu Studio meta packages until now. Perhaps I
> > > should test what happens, when Ubuntu Studio themes are installed. Does
> > > 11.10 already include Xfce?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am a little puzzled, over here. What does a Mint installation (and its
> > problems) have to do with Ubuntu Studio? We will not provide any official
> > support for such a combo, so I would suggest you find some elsewhere, for I do
> > not wish to encourage this sort of behaviour on our official support forums.
> >
> > Thanks for understanding!
>
> It was in reply to an answer of a request I did regarding to the usage
> of Mint Lisa with Ubuntu Studio meta packages.

I did understand that. Nonetheless, using Ubuntu Studio packages on a
completely different distro _isn't_ using Ubuntu Studio.

> My intension is to get a new DAW, since my old one is Edubuntu 10.10 +
> Ubuntu Studio meta packages.
>
> Note that I join a German forum regarding to Mint, but also note that
> Ubuntu is Ubuntu is Ubuntu.

Mint Linux isn't Ubuntu.

> IMO your wish isn't a wise wish. E.g. what has got an Android tablet to
> do with Ubuntu Studio, or much more worse, an iPad 2?

I do understand if people want to discuss vaguely-related issues on this mailing
list. I admit, I have partaken in such discussions myself. But in the end, the
subject of this mailing list, in brief, is: "Ubuntu-Studio-users -- Ubuntu
Studio Users Help and Discussion".

I do not consider asking for possible usages for an iPad2 (one of which could
have been jailrooting it and installing a PowerPPC port of Ubuntu) as such
misleading topics as providing support for a 'competing' distribution.

> Please understand that usage of a production setup has to do with
> several needs and different gear needs to work together. And again,
> regarding to Mind Lisa, it's Oneric, Ubuntu Studio meta packages are
> part of the official Ubuntu repositories.

Yes, Ubuntu Studio meta packages are indeed parts of official repositories.
However, the rest of that setup is not, which is the particular reason why we're
not providing support for it on this forum.

> Who is allowed to do requests on this list?

Everybody. If it's a support request, however, it will be served if it falls
under the umbrella of supported topics.

> Since Kubuntu still is Canonical I suspect they are allowed. But as soon
> as Kubuntu becomes a community project, AFAIK it will lose it's
> "membership" at Canonical. Are Kubuntu users still allowed to do
> requests then?

Of course. Kubuntu is, after all, using the official repositories for the
_whole_ of their distribution (of flavor, or derivative etc.), which Mint does
not.

> I can unsubscribe, no prob, but reconsider if your thinking is wise.

I never asked you to do such a thing. Please, there's no drama here. I am merely
trying to limit the support conversation to something that can reasonably be
provided. Ubuntu Studio community, by default, provides community support for
Ubuntu parts, we cannot stretch further than that.


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Old 02-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default What exactley is Ubuntu Studio related and what not? Was: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 repositories + an Ubuntu providing WLAN spport

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 13:51 +0200, Janne Jokitalo wrote:
> Of course. Kubuntu is, after all, using the official repositories for the
> _whole_ of their distribution (of flavor, or derivative etc.), which Mint does
> not.

Mint Lisa - KDE 64-bit seems to use the official repositories OOTB. I
agree that this anyway doesn't mean it's an Ubuntu distro, such as e.g.
Kubuntu still is or was.

You'll find exchange of experience e.g. between Suse and Debian users at
Debian users mailing list, this makes Linux a modern, libre OS.
IMO it's strange that such an exchange is unwanted for completely
compatible distros such as Ubuntu and Mint on this list.

I'm not believing in conspiracy theories, but a lot of German Ubuntu
derivatives users at least don't trust Marc Shuttleworth anymore. I'm
not one of them, but I don't feel good with the separation done by some
community members.

I wouldn't ask "When I upgraded Suse, Yast gets broken, what can I do?"
at this list, but why not asking "When I upgraded Mint, Ardour gets
broken, what can I do?"

Anyway, I won't discuss this any long, just 2 Cents,
Ralf


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Old 02-12-2012, 11:33 AM
Janne Jokitalo
 
Default What exactley is Ubuntu Studio related and what not? Was: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 repositories + an Ubuntu providing WLAN spport

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 01:20:52PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 13:51 +0200, Janne Jokitalo wrote:
> > Of course. Kubuntu is, after all, using the official repositories for the
> > _whole_ of their distribution (of flavor, or derivative etc.), which Mint does
> > not.
>
> Mint Lisa - KDE 64-bit seems to use the official repositories OOTB. I
> agree that this anyway doesn't mean it's an Ubuntu distro, such as e.g.
> Kubuntu still is or was.

Oh ok.

> You'll find exchange of experience e.g. between Suse and Debian users at
> Debian users mailing list, this makes Linux a modern, libre OS.
> IMO it's strange that such an exchange is unwanted for completely
> compatible distros such as Ubuntu and Mint on this list.

Exchange is one thing, support is different.

> I'm not believing in conspiracy theories, but a lot of German Ubuntu
> derivatives users at least don't trust Marc Shuttleworth anymore. I'm
> not one of them, but I don't feel good with the separation done by some
> community members.

This is not about separation and sadbfl. This is about what can the community
reasonably provide support for. Since this is under the ubuntu.com umbrella,
that's where we have to limit our support for.

As to why some people don't trust (I can't even understand why they would have
trust issues, has the guy betrayed them somehow?) the founder of the project,
that's definitely OT for this list.

> I wouldn't ask "When I upgraded Suse, Yast gets broken, what can I do?" at
> this list, but why not asking "When I upgraded Mint, Ardour gets broken, what
> can I do?"

It's because we don't know what distro-specific tweaks the Mint devs have
included in their base setup. There could be something there, that breaks what
we are trying to achieve, and when we give support instructions from our
distribution's point-of-view, the user might not get the problem resolved,
resulting in poor user experience and spreading of misinformation.

I would assume that Mint community has support forums for their users, right?

Remember, this is not about making users' lives miserable. It's about not
confusing other (possible) users by providing them information that is false.

> Anyway, I won't discuss this any long, just 2 Cents, Ralf

Fair enough. I just wanted to try to make you understand the raison d'etre for
this policy. And while it's not a very strict policy, I would still like to
remind about it every once in a while. I'm sorry if you feel like you were being
unfairly targetted about it. That's not the case.


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Old 02-12-2012, 06:06 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default What exactley is Ubuntu Studio related and what not? Was: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 repositories + an Ubuntu providing WLAN spport

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 14:33 +0200, Janne Jokitalo wrote:
> It's because we don't know what distro-specific tweaks the Mint devs have
> included in their base setup. There could be something there, that breaks what
> we are trying to achieve, and when we give support instructions from our
> distribution's point-of-view, the user might not get the problem resolved,
> resulting in poor user experience and spreading of misinformation.

ubuntustudio-11.10-alternate-amd64.iso download is at 94% now

Ralf



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Old 02-12-2012, 06:10 PM
Janne Jokitalo
 
Default What exactley is Ubuntu Studio related and what not? Was: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 repositories + an Ubuntu providing WLAN spport

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 08:06:20PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 14:33 +0200, Janne Jokitalo wrote:
> > It's because we don't know what distro-specific tweaks the Mint devs have
> > included in their base setup. There could be something there, that breaks what
> > we are trying to achieve, and when we give support instructions from our
> > distribution's point-of-view, the user might not get the problem resolved,
> > resulting in poor user experience and spreading of misinformation.
>
> ubuntustudio-11.10-alternate-amd64.iso download is at 94% now

Great news! Welcome back.

Btw. there are a few known drawbacks on that release, but it's an exciting one
in that it's the first where we used Xubuntu as the base.


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