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Old 09-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Dennis Neumeier
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

Hello List,

I just have a Midi Keyboard here (M-Audio Axygen 8) and I am trying to get any
sound out of it. Unfortunately, I have no Sound Card with Midi Support, so I
connect the keyboard via USB (I am aware of the possible latency). As system,
I am using Ubuntu Studio 8.04, because it was quite hard to get my sound card
working (M-Audio Delta 66), so I did not dare to change to a newer version.

I can see the keys via Jack connector and I connected it to "record in" from
rosegarden (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-1-c4ca-png.html) in alsa
tab. In rosegarden, I can see that a signal is coming in and that it records
something (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-3-eccb-png.html). But how
do I now get the signal to the speakers? Nothing really works -
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-2-c81e-png.html shows that I have 4
outputs from rosegarden. What I'd like to do is to connect the output from
rosegarden to a channel from Ardour.

Can somebody please help?

Greets.

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Old 09-18-2011, 09:27 PM
Q
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

Dennis Neumeier wrote:

Hello List,

I just have a Midi Keyboard here (M-Audio Axygen 8) and I am trying to get any
sound out of it. Unfortunately, I have no Sound Card with Midi Support, so I
connect the keyboard via USB (I am aware of the possible latency). As system,
I am using Ubuntu Studio 8.04, because it was quite hard to get my sound card
working (M-Audio Delta 66), so I did not dare to change to a newer version.


I can see the keys via Jack connector and I connected it to "record in" from
rosegarden (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-1-c4ca-png.html) in alsa
tab. In rosegarden, I can see that a signal is coming in and that it records
something (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-3-eccb-png.html). But how
do I now get the signal to the speakers? Nothing really works -
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-2-c81e-png.html shows that I have 4
outputs from rosegarden. What I'd like to do is to connect the output from
rosegarden to a channel from Ardour.


Can somebody please help?

Greets.


Hi

MIDI isn't a protocol for sound and MIDI devices don't generate sound,
the Oxygen 8 is a controller keyboard.


MIDI is a protocol for controlling and interfacing musical instruments
-- Musical Instrument Digital Interface -- it doesn't transmit sounds,
just messages about note durations, note on, note off, note velocity etc.


If your Oxygen 8 isn't connected to a software synthesizer on your
computer (such as a DSSI synth or a soundfont engine in Rosegarden) or a
hardware synth or sound module, you'll never hear anything, whether
connected with a DIN connector or MIDI over USB.


It looks like you've managed to record the MIDI data you created by
playing the keyboard, but there is no instrument for the data to play
and make a sound. The M-Audio cards don't contain synthesizers so the
General MIDI Acoustic Grand Piano showing in RG isn't actually connected
to anything that can make a sound.


I hope this helps.

Best wishes

Q

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Old 09-18-2011, 09:45 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

On Sun, 2011-09-18 at 22:27 +0100, Q wrote:
> Dennis Neumeier wrote:
> > Hello List,
> >
> > I just have a Midi Keyboard here (M-Audio Axygen 8) and I am trying to get any
> > sound out of it. Unfortunately, I have no Sound Card with Midi Support, so I
> > connect the keyboard via USB (I am aware of the possible latency). As system,
> > I am using Ubuntu Studio 8.04, because it was quite hard to get my sound card
> > working (M-Audio Delta 66), so I did not dare to change to a newer version.
> >
> > I can see the keys via Jack connector and I connected it to "record in" from
> > rosegarden (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-1-c4ca-png.html) in alsa
> > tab. In rosegarden, I can see that a signal is coming in and that it records
> > something (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-3-eccb-png.html). But how
> > do I now get the signal to the speakers? Nothing really works -
> > http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/inr2-2-c81e-png.html shows that I have 4
> > outputs from rosegarden. What I'd like to do is to connect the output from
> > rosegarden to a channel from Ardour.
> >
> > Can somebody please help?
> >
> > Greets.
> >
> Hi
>
> MIDI isn't a protocol for sound and MIDI devices don't generate sound,
> the Oxygen 8 is a controller keyboard.
>
> MIDI is a protocol for controlling and interfacing musical instruments
> -- Musical Instrument Digital Interface -- it doesn't transmit sounds,
> just messages about note durations, note on, note off, note velocity etc.
>
> If your Oxygen 8 isn't connected to a software synthesizer on your
> computer (such as a DSSI synth or a soundfont engine in Rosegarden) or a
> hardware synth or sound module, you'll never hear anything, whether
> connected with a DIN connector or MIDI over USB.
>
> It looks like you've managed to record the MIDI data you created by
> playing the keyboard, but there is no instrument for the data to play
> and make a sound. The M-Audio cards don't contain synthesizers so the
> General MIDI Acoustic Grand Piano showing in RG isn't actually connected
> to anything that can make a sound.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Q

Didn't read it myself, but it might be a help for you

http://rosegardenmusic.com/tutorials/supplemental/zyn/zyn.html

Btw. I prefer Qtractor to Rosegarden, but I suspect the best sequencer
could be Ardour3.

Don't worry about latency when using an USB MIDI device. The only issue
for USB MIDI devices is jitter when using them for MIDI out. I suspect
that you'll quantise MIDI events, hence jitter for input isn't a serious
issue. Internal Linux, when using soft synth, there's no MIDI jitter,
the MIDI hardware completely has no impact. Latency for audio isn't an
issue for your sound card, regarding to that you're equipment is ok, you
only need to follow the advice of Q.



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Old 09-19-2011, 06:13 PM
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

Hi,

first of allthanks for your answer.

> MIDI isn't a protocol for sound and MIDI devices don't generate sound,
> the Oxygen 8 is a controller keyboard.

I am aware of this - I am sorry if I didn't mention this.

> If your Oxygen 8 isn't connected to a software synthesizer on your
> computer (such as a DSSI synth or a soundfont engine in Rosegarden) or a
> hardware synth or sound module, you'll never hear anything, whether
> connected with a DIN connector or MIDI over USB.

Well, as I am beginner in midi, I just thought that I might get a sound when having chosed "General MIDI Device" and under it "Acoustic Grand Piano" in the section "Wiedergabeparameter". I just assumed that somehow, Rosegarden has integrated a software synth here. Am I completely wrong?

Anyhow, when I select "Synth Plugin" under "Wiedergabeparameter" and then eg "Xsynth DSSI plugin" as Paramter for the instrument, I perfectly hear something. Also, I am able to get sound via ZynAddSubFX. But I still want to understand how rosegarden is working here - can somebody please explain me where my brain went wrong?

Greets,
Dennis
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:25 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

On Mon, 2011-09-19 at 20:13 +0200, DennisMail@gmx.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> first of allthanks for your answer.
>
> > MIDI isn't a protocol for sound and MIDI devices don't generate sound,
> > the Oxygen 8 is a controller keyboard.
>
> I am aware of this - I am sorry if I didn't mention this.
>
> > If your Oxygen 8 isn't connected to a software synthesizer on your
> > computer (such as a DSSI synth or a soundfont engine in Rosegarden) or a
> > hardware synth or sound module, you'll never hear anything, whether
> > connected with a DIN connector or MIDI over USB.
>
> Well, as I am beginner in midi, I just thought that I might get a sound when having chosed "General MIDI Device" and under it "Acoustic Grand Piano" in the section "Wiedergabeparameter". I just assumed that somehow, Rosegarden has integrated a software synth here. Am I completely wrong?
>
> Anyhow, when I select "Synth Plugin" under "Wiedergabeparameter" and then eg "Xsynth DSSI plugin" as Paramter for the instrument, I perfectly hear something. Also, I am able to get sound via ZynAddSubFX. But I still want to understand how rosegarden is working here - can somebody please explain me where my brain went wrong?
>
> Greets,
> Dennis

Very simple, Rosegarden is a sequencer, just recording MIDI events. It
doesn't produce sound. Xsynth, ZynAddSubFX etc. are soft synth that are
independent of Rosegarden, Rosegarden is just a host, able to load those
softsynth as plug-ins. You can use the same synth with other sequencers.

A MIDI event is data that e.g contains information about what note
should be played, this and nothing more is recorded by a sequencer. The
sound modules aka softsynth understand this information and will play
that e.g. note, but you need to load such a softsynth as plug.in,
assumed the sequencer is able to be a host, otherwise you need to send
the data by MIDI out to an hardware or soft-synth. I suspect that
something like LMMS http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ does work different, I
suspect it will directly rout to included synth, not a way to work
professional.

--
The Germans have another kind of parenthesis, which they make by
splitting a verb in two and putting half of it at the beginning of an
exciting chapter and the other half at the end of it. Can any one
conceive of anything more confusing than that? These things are called
"separable verbs." The German grammar is blistered all over with
separable verbs; and the wider the two portions of one of them are
spread apart, the better the author of the crime is pleased with his
performance. from Mark Twain, The Awful German Language


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Old 09-19-2011, 06:49 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

PS: I'm not using Rosegarden. It might be that Rosegarden did show
general MIDI information, even if no plug-in is loaded. E.g. the default
might be "1 Acoustic Grand Piano". Perhaps Rosegarden than send the so
called program change MIDI event, that will switch to sound number 1,
but it won't play a audible note, because no plug-in synth is loaded,
resp. no synth is connected to MIDI out. There's an odd standard called
general MIDI, dunno, but perhaps Rosegarden has default settings
regarding to this. If so, it must be confusing for you, since it looks
like a synth is already connected. No, it isn't you need to add a synth
first. Information about e.g. "Acoustic Grand Piano" is a dummy, for the
MIDI event called "program change 1, under the condition, when using a
general MIDI device", of cause my Oberheim Matrix-1000 don't has a
"Acoustic Grand Piano" as sound number one. Better don't use
Rosegarden . Try Qtractor or Ardour3, or perhaps some other Linux
Sequencer. I experienced Rosegarden as a PITA. The only advantage of
Rosegarden is, that it has got a notation software included. I don't
need this. Do you need notation printing?


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Old 09-19-2011, 07:56 PM
"Shawn&Stacey"
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

"fluid synth" worked for my Maudio board on a USB That was with "jack" &
the latancy was low as not an isue
But that was with an old comp and an old studio8.? and an old soud blaster
64 " i think"
with fliud link the key board to fluid and jack to the board ( sound ? ) now
your up . fluid is just you wave table ( all the fucky sound you want off
the midi controler ) aka the midi board.

Help I hope?
ps. i'm not good at code


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralf Mardorf" <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>

To: <ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB



PS: I'm not using Rosegarden. It might be that Rosegarden did show
general MIDI information, even if no plug-in is loaded. E.g. the default
might be "1 Acoustic Grand Piano". Perhaps Rosegarden than send the so
called program change MIDI event, that will switch to sound number 1,
but it won't play a audible note, because no plug-in synth is loaded,
resp. no synth is connected to MIDI out. There's an odd standard called
general MIDI, dunno, but perhaps Rosegarden has default settings
regarding to this. If so, it must be confusing for you, since it looks
like a synth is already connected. No, it isn't you need to add a synth
first. Information about e.g. "Acoustic Grand Piano" is a dummy, for the
MIDI event called "program change 1, under the condition, when using a
general MIDI device", of cause my Oberheim Matrix-1000 don't has a
"Acoustic Grand Piano" as sound number one. Better don't use
Rosegarden . Try Qtractor or Ardour3, or perhaps some other Linux
Sequencer. I experienced Rosegarden as a PITA. The only advantage of
Rosegarden is, that it has got a notation software included. I don't
need this. Do you need notation printing?


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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users



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Old 09-19-2011, 10:53 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

On Mon, 2011-09-19 at 15:56 -0400, Shawn&Stacey wrote:
> "fluid synth" worked for my Maudio board on a USB That was with "jack" &
> the latancy was low as not an isue
> But that was with an old comp and an old studio8.? and an old soud blaster
> 64 " i think"
> with fliud link the key board to fluid and jack to the board ( sound ? ) now
> your up . fluid is just you wave table ( all the fucky sound you want off
> the midi controler ) aka the midi board.
> Help I hope?
> ps. i'm not good at code

fluidsynth-dssi is my favourite choice, but it does need soundfonts,
there are some good soundfonts for free available by the web, I've got
no time to search for such a site, but perhaps some of those are good
too: http://www.hammersound.net/. As an information to Dennis,
soundfonts are sampled instruments.


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Old 09-20-2011, 08:07 AM
Michael
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

Hi,

Thanks for your answer, but still there is something I don't get.

Am 19.09.2011 um 20:49 schrieb Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:

> PS: I'm not using Rosegarden. It might be that Rosegarden did show
> general MIDI information, even if no plug-in is loaded. E.g. the default
> might be "1 Acoustic Grand Piano". Perhaps Rosegarden than send the so
> called program change MIDI event, that will switch to sound number 1,
> but it won't play a audible note, because no plug-in synth is loaded,
> resp. no synth is connected to MIDI out.

Let me try to put it in my words: rosegarden shows general midi information for any possible sw or hw synth here that has to be connected in order to get something out of the speakers. If this is true, I wonder where "Acoustic grand piano" comes from, because (if I understand all of this correctly) the sound itself is done by the synth and not by the sequencer. So the sequencer shouldn't know anything about the names of the soundfonts that are loaded by the synth, it should only display eg the name of the connection itself eg "midi connection 1" that is communicating with the synth, correct?

If I am right, I wonder about the name of the midi information in rosegarden. Does anybody know if the naming here is some kind of rest from a synth that was eg included in rosegarden (which is a possible explanation of the naming here to me)?

> The only advantage of
> Rosegarden is, that it has got a notation software included. I don't
> need this. Do you need notation printing?

Notation... Well, let me put it that way: Normal musicians in "rock music" (as a wide definition of what I like) shouldn't ever need to write down their stuff because after all, they know what they are playing. If you ever become famous, of course, there is a possibility that you may forget some parts of old songs, but then you still have the internet In this context, there is the story from Steve Harris (Iron Maiden) who replied to the question why they don't play "Alexander the great" anymore live: "Because Adrian can't remember the solo". I am not sure if the story is true, but it shows that learning notation could be useful

Great,
Dennis
>

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Old 09-20-2011, 08:22 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No sound from Midi Keyboard via USB

On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 10:07 +0200, Michael wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your answer, but still there is something I don't get.
>
> Am 19.09.2011 um 20:49 schrieb Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
>
> > PS: I'm not using Rosegarden. It might be that Rosegarden did show
> > general MIDI information, even if no plug-in is loaded. E.g. the default
> > might be "1 Acoustic Grand Piano". Perhaps Rosegarden than send the so
> > called program change MIDI event, that will switch to sound number 1,
> > but it won't play a audible note, because no plug-in synth is loaded,
> > resp. no synth is connected to MIDI out.
>
> Let me try to put it in my words: rosegarden shows general midi information for any possible sw or hw synth here that has to be connected in order to get something out of the speakers. If this is true, I wonder where "Acoustic grand piano" comes from, because (if I understand all of this correctly) the sound itself is done by the synth and not by the sequencer. So the sequencer shouldn't know anything about the names of the soundfonts that are loaded by the synth, it should only display eg the name of the connection itself eg "midi connection 1" that is communicating with the synth, correct?
>
> If I am right, I wonder about the name of the midi information in rosegarden. Does anybody know if the naming here is some kind of rest from a synth that was eg included in rosegarden (which is a possible explanation of the naming here to me)?
>

This seems to be bad coding by the Rosegarden coders. I suspect that
they refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI, instead of just
using numbers, they perhaps add names. If so, it would be very stupid.

> > The only advantage of
> > Rosegarden is, that it has got a notation software included. I don't
> > need this. Do you need notation printing?
>
> Notation... Well, let me put it that way: Normal musicians in "rock music" (as a wide definition of what I like) shouldn't ever need to write down their stuff because after all, they know what they are playing. If you ever become famous, of course, there is a possibility that you may forget some parts of old songs, but then you still have the internet In this context, there is the story from Steve Harris (Iron Maiden) who replied to the question why they don't play "Alexander the great" anymore live: "Because Adrian can't remember the solo". I am not sure if the story is true, but it shows that learning notation could be useful

I'm unable to read notes, when I privately taught music somebody wished
to get information about rules for composing. Just before the leassons I
visited a public library and read about music theory and notes. I told
him, that it's stupid, but he payed me, so I gave him, what he wanted.
You learn playing Rock music in the streets, not by books. 2 Cents YMMV.

>
> Great,
> Dennis
> >
>



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