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Old 06-05-2011, 08:24 AM
bart deruyter
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

Hi all,

since recently I'm experiencing more xruns in ubuntustudio 11.04, more specifically using the lowlatency kernel. My audiocard is an external one, firewire, and I use the firewire driver. They just started happening out of the blue, without changing anything significantly. These xruns happen randomly, not caused by anything I do on the desktop. When I keep qjackctl running without any audio apps open, now and then, about each half hour, or 20 minutes, there is an xrun.



My limits.conf file seems to be as described on the wiki's over the web, I have 4 GB or ram, a duocore processor.. I see no reason for problems.
I've got a latency of 17.4 msec, with a setting of 256 Frames/Perios, Sample Rate of 44100, and 3 Periods/Buffer. So far this was the most stable setup, though I'm sure I should be able to go to 128 Frames/Period with my AudioFire12. But I can't, more xruns happen when using this setting. Setting the samplerate higher I get more xruns too. I'd love to record on 96000, or even 192000, which is possible with the audiocard, but the computer system prevents this because of these xruns.



This does make it unreliable for recording, which I want to do more regularly and it makes me impossible to do recordings for others. I do not want a system where I have to ask people to start playing again for the recording because xruns.



So, I was wondering, are there diagnostic tools, test scrips, tracing tools to get me to the bottom of this?

Grtz,
Bart
http://www.bartart3d.be/


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Old 06-05-2011, 09:00 AM
Robert Klaar
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

What happens if you set the frames/period settings higher? I have similar setup and can't get it to run on any lower than 1024 frames(if I want to avoid xruns), but then I've set the sample rate to 48000. I've never noticed any problems with the latency, it's at 46 or something now but I can't hear any difference between this and something lower, can you? .)

Best,Robert

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 10:24 AM, bart deruyter <bart.deruyter@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

since recently I'm experiencing more xruns in ubuntustudio 11.04, more specifically using the lowlatency kernel. My audiocard is an external one, firewire, and I use the firewire driver. They just started happening out of the blue, without changing anything significantly. These xruns happen randomly, not caused by anything I do on the desktop. When I keep qjackctl running without any audio apps open, now and then, about each half hour, or 20 minutes, there is an xrun.




My limits.conf file seems to be as described on the wiki's over the web, I have 4 GB or ram, a duocore processor.. I see no reason for problems.
I've got a latency of 17.4 msec, with a setting of 256 Frames/Perios, Sample Rate of 44100, and 3 Periods/Buffer. So far this was the most stable setup, though I'm sure I should be able to go to 128 Frames/Period with my AudioFire12. But I can't, more xruns happen when using this setting. Setting the samplerate higher I get more xruns too. I'd love to record on 96000, or even 192000, which is possible with the audiocard, but the computer system prevents this because of these xruns.




This does make it unreliable for recording, which I want to do more regularly and it makes me impossible to do recordings for others. I do not want a system where I have to ask people to start playing again for the recording because xruns.




So, I was wondering, are there diagnostic tools, test scrips, tracing tools to get me to the bottom of this?

Grtz,
Bart
http://www.bartart3d.be/




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Old 06-05-2011, 09:13 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

Is CPU frequency scaling set to 'performance'? If you start a GNOME
session, I bet it will switch the governor to 'ondemand', if so, you
only need to set CPU frequency scaling to 'performance'.
Using a PREMPT kernel have proved a receipt for issues when doing audio
work. You need a kernel PREEMPT RT or kernel ex 2.6.39.


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Old 06-05-2011, 09:44 AM
bart deruyter
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

Ok, I did some tests, xruns keep happening on 512 Frames/Period and 1024 Frames/Period at 48000, setting Periods/Buffer at 2. At 3 Periods/Buffer there is too much latency in my opinion.

Next step, how do I change the governer from 'ondemand' to 'performance'? I've never done that before, didn't even need to do that in the previous ubuntustudio versions.



About the kernel :
Weird, I keep reading from ubuntustudio that the generic kernel in Ubuntustuido 11.04 should be good enough, on the wiki with the comparing table I read better results from the lowlatency kernel.. and now there is the need for the preempt rt.... It is getting very, very, very confusing for me.



but thanks for the help of course.. step by step, we'll get there.. we just have to.
http://www.bartart3d.be/



2011/6/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>


Is CPU frequency scaling set to 'performance'? If you start a GNOME

session, I bet it will switch the governor to 'ondemand', if so, you

only need to set CPU frequency scaling to 'performance'.

Using a PREMPT kernel have proved a receipt for issues when doing audio

work. You need a *kernel PREEMPT RT or kernel ex 2.6.39.





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Old 06-05-2011, 09:57 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 11:44 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:
> Ok, I did some tests, xruns keep happening on 512 Frames/Period and
> 1024 Frames/Period at 48000, setting Periods/Buffer at 2. At 3
> Periods/Buffer there is too much latency in my opinion.
>
> Next step, how do I change the governer from 'ondemand' to
> 'performance'? I've never done that before, didn't even need to do
> that in the previous ubuntustudio versions.

You can run

sudo -i
cpufreq-selector -g performance

The better choice is to

right click to the GNOME panel > Add to panel... > CPU frequency scaling
monitor

Once it is in the panel, left click to the scaling monitor icon and
chose 'performance'.


>
> About the kernel :
> Weird, I keep reading from ubuntustudio that the generic kernel in
> Ubuntustuido 11.04 should be good enough, on the wiki with the
> comparing table I read better results from the lowlatency kernel.. and
> now there is the need for the preempt rt.... It is getting very, very,
> very confusing for me.
>
> but thanks for the help of course.. step by step, we'll get there.. we
> just have to.

For kernels before version 2.6.39 and this version isn't supported by
any repository jet, real-time optimisation only is done with kernel-rt.
A kernel without RT can work too, but when you get issues, then use a
kernel-rt.

Hth,

Ralf


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Old 06-05-2011, 10:20 AM
bart deruyter
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

Ralf,

thanks for the explanation. It does work better with the performance setting. I do still get xruns when using midi though. Using sooperlooper, I trigger recording with the pedal of my keyboard, through an usb2midi misport2x2.



I guess the search for the PREEMPT_RT kernel is in place.. is there a PPA I could use, or do I have to build it myself? Or is it the linux-headers-2.6.31-12-realtime? I have it listed in the falk-tx ppa.

grtz,


Barthttp://www.bartart3d.be/



2011/6/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>


On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 11:44 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:

> Ok, I did some tests, xruns keep happening on 512 Frames/Period and

> 1024 Frames/Period at 48000, setting Periods/Buffer at 2. At 3

> Periods/Buffer there is too much latency in my opinion.

>

> Next step, how do I change the governer from 'ondemand' to

> 'performance'? I've never done that before, didn't even need to do

> that in the previous ubuntustudio versions.



You can run



sudo -i

cpufreq-selector -g performance



The better choice is to



right click to the GNOME panel > Add to panel... > CPU frequency scaling

monitor



Once it is in the panel, left click to the scaling monitor icon and

chose 'performance'.





>

> About the kernel :

> Weird, I keep reading from ubuntustudio that the generic kernel in

> Ubuntustuido 11.04 should be good enough, on the wiki with the

> comparing table I read better results from the lowlatency kernel.. and

> now there is the need for the preempt rt.... It is getting very, very,

> very confusing for me.

>

> but thanks for the help of course.. step by step, we'll get there.. we

> just have to.



For kernels before version 2.6.39 and this version isn't supported by

any repository jet, real-time optimisation only is done with kernel-rt.

A kernel without RT can work too, but when you get issues, then use a

kernel-rt.



Hth,



Ralf





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Old 06-05-2011, 11:14 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 12:20 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:
> Ralf,
>
> thanks for the explanation. It does work better with the performance
> setting. I do still get xruns when using midi though. Using
> sooperlooper, I trigger recording with the pedal of my keyboard,
> through an usb2midi misport2x2.
>
> I guess the search for the PREEMPT_RT kernel is in place.. is there a
> PPA I could use, or do I have to build it myself? Or is it the
> linux-headers-2.6.31-12-realtime? I have it listed in the falk-tx
> ppa.
>
> grtz,
> Bart

What architecture do you run, 32-bit or 64-bit and what is the version
of the generic kernel you run?

uname -a

will show you.

I can send a script that will build a kernel-rt automatically. Since you
use the generic kernel, you could try the preempt only kernel for Ubuntu
Studio. IMO it's better to use a PREEMPT RT instead of a PREEMPT only,
but perhaps it works for you. Perhaps it's in a repository, see
https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=natty

Hth,

Ralf


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Old 06-05-2011, 11:25 AM
bart deruyter
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

My system now is this :
2.6.38-8-lowlatency #42+all1~natty1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 29 03:22:51 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

It already says PREEMPT aparently, but no rt.

thanks for looking into this, might make life much easier :-).



http://www.bartart3d.be/



2011/6/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>


On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 12:20 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:

> Ralf,

>

> thanks for the explanation. It does work better with the performance

> setting. I do still get xruns when using midi though. Using

> sooperlooper, I trigger recording with the pedal of my keyboard,

> through an usb2midi misport2x2.

>

> I guess the search for the PREEMPT_RT kernel is in place.. is there a

> PPA I could use, or do I have to build it myself? Or is it the

> linux-headers-2.6.31-12-realtime? I have it listed in the falk-tx

> ppa.

>

> grtz,

> Bart



What architecture do you run, 32-bit or 64-bit and what is the version

of the generic kernel you run?



uname -a



will show you.



I can send a script that will build a kernel-rt automatically. Since you

use the generic kernel, you could try the preempt only kernel for Ubuntu

Studio. IMO it's better to use a PREEMPT RT instead of a PREEMPT only,

but perhaps it works for you. Perhaps it's in a repository, see

https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=natty



Hth,



Ralf





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Old 06-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 13:25 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:
> My system now is this :
> 2.6.38-8-lowlatency #42+all1~natty1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 29
> 03:22:51 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> It already says PREEMPT aparently, but no rt.
>
> thanks for looking into this, might make life much easier :-).

You can edit the script. It (nearly) only does, what you usually need to
type manually in a terminal emulation.

When the script runs 'make oldconfig' you perhaps only need to push
enter for every question, but it would be better to read the output and
if there should be something asked regarding to real-time, to answer
carefully.

The script is attached and reedited to fit to your setup, hence it's not
tested for your setup, but it should work.

Run

sudo sh rt4us-natty

Hth,

Ralf
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Old 06-05-2011, 04:02 PM
bart deruyter
 
Default diagnostic tools to trace the reason xruns are happening?

Hey, thanks for the script.. the kernel is built, and I've booted using it, but I didn't test it yet. The nvidia driver does not work, but if I could set my screen resolution correctly, that would be enough for me. I then could switch between kernels for audio and graphic, 3D work. I hope I won't have to re-enable the nvidia driver each time I boot into the generic kernel, and disable it again when I boot into the realtime kernel.



The resolution of my screen is not listed in the tool provided for modifying the resolution. It should be 1680 x 1050 at 109 Hz, but it's limited to 1400 x 1050 at 56 Hz.

Ralf, you mentioned the 2.6.39 kernel. You meant the real time features will be included in this generic kernel? That would be wonderfull, no need to have specialised kernels for it anymore, and with nvidia driver capabilities :-D. I hope will be released in a repository soon.



Grtz,
Bart
http://www.bartart3d.be/



2011/6/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>


On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 13:25 +0200, bart deruyter wrote:

> My system now is this :

> 2.6.38-8-lowlatency #42+all1~natty1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 29

> 03:22:51 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

>

> It already says PREEMPT aparently, but no rt.

>

> thanks for looking into this, might make life much easier :-).



You can edit the script. It (nearly) only does, what you usually need to

type manually in a terminal emulation.



When the script runs 'make oldconfig' you perhaps only need to push

enter for every question, but it would be better to read the output and

if there should be something asked regarding to real-time, to answer

carefully.



The script is attached and reedited to fit to your setup, hence it's not

tested for your setup, but it should work.



Run



sudo sh rt4us-natty



Hth,



Ralf


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