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Old 05-22-2011, 09:43 AM
Ralf
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

Hi

I only watched pictures and read texts but didn't hear one of those RME
devices, anyway, until now I tend to order the RME FIREFACE 400 or RME
MULTIFACE II if they shouldn't cause issues with Linux. The two HDSP be
possible too.

Any experiences, information?

RME FIREFACE 400
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_fireface_400.htm

RME MULTIFACE II
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_multiface_ii.htm

RME HDSP 9652
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_digi_9652_hdsp.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_9652_hdsp_retour.htm

RME HDSP 9632
http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_digi_9632_hdsp_pcikarte.htm

The sound quality at least should reach that of my elCheapo consumer DAT
Sony DTC-670. The Terratec EWX 24/96 does hardly reach the sound quality
of my Yamaha MT44D 4 track analog cassette recorder, when it wasn't
broken, but well maintained and I heard several Envy24 cards that hardly
reach the 4 track recorders quality.

I'm not interested in this one, but the price-performance ratio is
amazing:

BEHRINGER XENYX X2442 USB
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_xenyx_x2442_usb.htm
I've got a Behringer EURORACK UB2442FX-PRO a very bad mixer, hard to
clean, hard to use, because everything is small, even if it's dust
protected, after 3 years dust issues started. All faders are still ok,
but Group buttons are completely out of order, some channels don't work
any more. I don't had enough money to get a better mixer, when my old
get completely broken but OTOH, the sound quality anyhow is good enough
to reach good consumer quality that is better, than what my Terratec EWX
24/96 are able to record. I wish to get a good sound card, but this
Behringer might be interesting for some people. Note, I never compared a
Mackie with the UB2442FX-PRO directly, a friend has got nearly the same
mixer from Mackie, and I've got the impression that the sound quality of
the Mackie is better. IMO Mackie is some kind of reference for low cost
home recording equipment. Things should sound similar to a Mackie or
better.

I'll start reading
http://www.google.de/#sclient=psy&hl=de&source=hp&q=RME+FIREFACE+400
+linux&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r _pw.&fp=5a4a001e44ffdadc
now.

Best,

Ralf


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Old 05-22-2011, 10:46 AM
Ralf
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 12:08 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 11:43 AM, Ralf wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I only watched pictures and read texts but didn't hear one of those RME
> > devices, anyway, until now I tend to order the RME FIREFACE 400 or RME
> > MULTIFACE II if they shouldn't cause issues with Linux. The two HDSP be
> > possible too.
> >
> > Any experiences, information?
>
> ralf, as usual, your level of disinformation is astonishing.

Hi Jörn,

thank you .

Disinformation? I didn't have any information, neither right nor wrong
information, that's why I'm asking.

> the fireface is an ieee1394 device, and the ffado drivers are somewhat
> experimental. so yes, this would be an "issue with linux". i suggest you
> check the ffado.org website and look through the ffado mailing list
> archive to see if the current level of support is sufficient for what
> you want to do.
>
> the multiface ii is a break-out and converter box. it doesn't work on
> its own. consequently, there are no driver issues associated with its
> use, other than the firmware upload which the host computer has to take
> care of when you boot the device.
> what you want to look into is the corresponding pci(e) card with the
> connector that looks like firewire but isn't (proprietary rme protocol).
> the quality of the converters on the multiface leaves nothing to be desired.

You do write the same as another one does write in a forum . I tend to
order a Multiface.

> the 9652 and 9636 cards are digital-only, with two resp. three adat i/o
> connectors. consequently, their "sound quality" is perfect.
> you will have to combine them with some external adat ad/da converter.
>
> most if not all rme cards come pci and pci express flavours. as you
> mentioned in a previous posting, the pci prices have dropped a lot, but
> when you consider one, factor in the cost for mainboards with pci slots
> - they will become quite rare in mass market in the near future, and
> then you would have to pay extra to get some "industry"-type product
> that still has them. for an idea of the extra cost, try shopping for an
> industry board with ISA slots today (still needed to run legacy process
> control cards and whatnot).

Yes, my ASUS M2A-VM HDMI motherboard only has 2 PCI slots, occupied by 2
Terratec EWX 24/96 cards.
I removed the HDMI thingy and used the PCIe slot for a GeForce 7200GS,
because 3D doesn't work for the integrated Radeon X1250-based graphics.

Btw. the board has got one PCIe x16 and one PCIe x1 slot.

I could remove the GeForce, 3D isn't important at the moment. Because
the Multiface is less expensive, I also could order a new motherboard,
if I should need 3D ... perhaps, I don't know what I need to replace
too, I randomly picked some mobos ... DDR3 instead of DDR2 seems to be
no moneywise issue, I guess this is all I would need to change.

So the future is NO PCI, but several PCIe x16 and x1 slots?

> all rme cards i've come across will happily run at 64 frames, and some
> of the newer ones let you go down to 32 or 16, although i have not tried
> this yet.

Somebody on a forum wrote that 32 frames are ok for his RME, for a real
multi-channel productions!

Thank you very much. My impression is that RME cards are the best choice
for Linux.

Best,

Ralf


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Old 05-22-2011, 10:54 AM
Ralf
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 12:46 +0200, Ralf wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 12:08 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> > On 05/22/2011 11:43 AM, Ralf wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I only watched pictures and read texts but didn't hear one of those RME
> > > devices, anyway, until now I tend to order the RME FIREFACE 400 or RME
> > > MULTIFACE II if they shouldn't cause issues with Linux. The two HDSP be
> > > possible too.
> > >
> > > Any experiences, information?
> >
> > ralf, as usual, your level of disinformation is astonishing.
>
> Hi Jörn,
>
> thank you .
>
> Disinformation? I didn't have any information, neither right nor wrong
> information, that's why I'm asking.
>
> > the fireface is an ieee1394 device, and the ffado drivers are somewhat
> > experimental. so yes, this would be an "issue with linux". i suggest you
> > check the ffado.org website and look through the ffado mailing list
> > archive to see if the current level of support is sufficient for what
> > you want to do.
> >
> > the multiface ii is a break-out and converter box. it doesn't work on
> > its own. consequently, there are no driver issues associated with its
> > use, other than the firmware upload which the host computer has to take
> > care of when you boot the device.

Oops, my broken English ... there are issues? Googleing for "multiface
ii linux" results with reported issue :S.

> > what you want to look into is the corresponding pci(e) card with the
> > connector that looks like firewire but isn't (proprietary rme protocol).
> > the quality of the converters on the multiface leaves nothing to be desired.
>
> You do write the same as another one does write in a forum . I tend to
> order a Multiface.
>
> > the 9652 and 9636 cards are digital-only, with two resp. three adat i/o
> > connectors. consequently, their "sound quality" is perfect.
> > you will have to combine them with some external adat ad/da converter.
> >
> > most if not all rme cards come pci and pci express flavours. as you
> > mentioned in a previous posting, the pci prices have dropped a lot, but
> > when you consider one, factor in the cost for mainboards with pci slots
> > - they will become quite rare in mass market in the near future, and
> > then you would have to pay extra to get some "industry"-type product
> > that still has them. for an idea of the extra cost, try shopping for an
> > industry board with ISA slots today (still needed to run legacy process
> > control cards and whatnot).
>
> Yes, my ASUS M2A-VM HDMI motherboard only has 2 PCI slots, occupied by 2
> Terratec EWX 24/96 cards.
> I removed the HDMI thingy and used the PCIe slot for a GeForce 7200GS,
> because 3D doesn't work for the integrated Radeon X1250-based graphics.
>
> Btw. the board has got one PCIe x16 and one PCIe x1 slot.
>
> I could remove the GeForce, 3D isn't important at the moment. Because
> the Multiface is less expensive, I also could order a new motherboard,
> if I should need 3D ... perhaps, I don't know what I need to replace
> too, I randomly picked some mobos ... DDR3 instead of DDR2 seems to be
> no moneywise issue, I guess this is all I would need to change.
>
> So the future is NO PCI, but several PCIe x16 and x1 slots?
>
> > all rme cards i've come across will happily run at 64 frames, and some
> > of the newer ones let you go down to 32 or 16, although i have not tried
> > this yet.
>
> Somebody on a forum wrote that 32 frames are ok for his RME, for a real
> multi-channel productions!
>
> Thank you very much. My impression is that RME cards are the best choice
> for Linux.
>
> Best,
>
> Ralf
>



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Old 05-22-2011, 12:40 PM
Karl Giesing
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

> I'm not interested in this one, but the price-performance ratio is
> amazing:
>
> BEHRINGER XENYX X2442 USB
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_xenyx_x2442_usb.htm

Going only slightly off-topic:
One thing to consider is that, AFAIK, all of the*Behringer*mixers with USB output only do two channels. That is, the USB only streams the stereo bus. None are multi-channel.
At least, that's how it was when I last looked into it (I was tempted to get one of the smaller ones myself).
Mackie is SLIGHTLY better than*Behringer, but Behringer is actually catching up. Regardless, the small amount of extra quality doesn't justify the larger price, IMHO.
If this kind of setup is what you're looking for, I'd go with an Allen & Heath ZED-14 instead. You'll lose a few channels for the same price, but the quality is far better.

-Karl.

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Old 05-22-2011, 07:23 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

I would stay away from the Fireface and the multiface (unless you
connect the multiface to another interface).

FWIW, I have a 9652 PCI card and an RME ADI 8-DS. If I need more
channels there is an Alesis ADAT that I can connect to it, albeit at
only 16/48. It is important to note that the 9652/9652 do not have
any ADC/DACs on them and rely on outboard gear for that.

This particular rig has been solid and stable for years and has been
in 3 different rigs, the latest being an Intel Sandy bridge. If you
can afford it I highly recommend the RME PCI and PCIe solutions.
Their Firewire solutions have traditionally been the exact opposite
under Linux.



2011/5/22 Ralf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 12:46 +0200, Ralf wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 12:08 +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>> > On 05/22/2011 11:43 AM, Ralf wrote:
>> > > Hi
>> > >
>> > > I only watched pictures and read texts but didn't hear one of those RME
>> > > devices, anyway, until now I tend to order the RME FIREFACE 400 or RME
>> > > MULTIFACE II if they shouldn't cause issues with Linux. The two HDSP be
>> > > possible too.
>> > >
>> > > Any experiences, information?
>> >
>> > ralf, as usual, your level of disinformation is astonishing.
>>
>> Hi Jörn,
>>
>> thank you .
>>
>> Disinformation? I didn't have any information, neither right nor wrong
>> information, that's why I'm asking.
>>
>> > the fireface is an ieee1394 device, and the ffado drivers are somewhat
>> > experimental. so yes, this would be an "issue with linux". i suggest you
>> > check the ffado.org website and look through the ffado mailing list
>> > archive to see if the current level of support is sufficient for what
>> > you want to do.
>> >
>> > the multiface ii is a break-out and converter box. it doesn't work on
>> > its own. consequently, there are no driver issues associated with its
>> > use, other than the firmware upload which the host computer has to take
>> > care of when you boot the device.
>
> Oops, my broken English ... there are issues? Googleing for "multiface
> ii linux" results with reported issue :S.
>
>> > what you want to look into is the corresponding pci(e) card with the
>> > connector that looks like firewire but isn't (proprietary rme protocol).
>> > the quality of the converters on the multiface leaves nothing to be desired.
>>
>> You do write the same as another one does write in a forum . I tend to
>> order a Multiface.
>>
>> > the 9652 and 9636 cards are digital-only, with two resp. three adat i/o
>> > connectors. consequently, their "sound quality" is perfect.
>> > you will have to combine them with some external adat ad/da converter.
>> >
>> > most if not all rme cards come pci and pci express flavours. as you
>> > mentioned in a previous posting, the pci prices have dropped a lot, but
>> > when you consider one, factor in the cost for mainboards with pci slots
>> > - they will become quite rare in mass market in the near future, and
>> > then you would have to pay extra to get some "industry"-type product
>> > that still has them. for an idea of the extra cost, try shopping for an
>> > industry board with ISA slots today (still needed to run legacy process
>> > control cards and whatnot).
>>
>> Yes, my ASUS M2A-VM HDMI motherboard only has 2 PCI slots, occupied by 2
>> Terratec EWX 24/96 cards.
>> I removed the HDMI thingy and used the PCIe slot for a GeForce 7200GS,
>> because 3D doesn't work for the integrated Radeon X1250-based graphics.
>>
>> Btw. the board has got one PCIe x16 and one PCIe x1 slot.
>>
>> I could remove the GeForce, 3D isn't important at the moment. Because
>> the Multiface is less expensive, I also could order a new motherboard,
>> if I should need 3D ... perhaps, I don't know what I need to replace
>> too, I randomly picked some mobos ... DDR3 instead of DDR2 seems to be
>> no moneywise issue, I guess this is all I would need to change.
>>
>> So the future is NO PCI, but several PCIe x16 and x1 slots?
>>
>> > all rme cards i've come across will happily run at 64 frames, and some
>> > of the newer ones let you go down to 32 or 16, although i have not tried
>> > this yet.
>>
>> Somebody on a forum wrote that 32 frames are ok for his RME, for a real
>> multi-channel productions!
>>
>> Thank you very much. My impression is that RME cards are the best choice
>> for Linux.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>
>
>
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>

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Old 05-23-2011, 03:43 AM
Ralf
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:23 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> I would stay away from the Fireface and the multiface (unless you
> connect the multiface to another interface).
>
> FWIW, I have a 9652 PCI card and an RME ADI 8-DS. If I need more
> channels there is an Alesis ADAT that I can connect to it, albeit at
> only 16/48. It is important to note that the 9652/9652 do not have
> any ADC/DACs on them and rely on outboard gear for that.
>
> This particular rig has been solid and stable for years and has been
> in 3 different rigs, the latest being an Intel Sandy bridge. If you
> can afford it I highly recommend the RME PCI and PCIe solutions.
> Their Firewire solutions have traditionally been the exact opposite
> under Linux.

Hm? I tries to switch from LAD to LAU, regarding to current user
queries, but it failed. Hi Admin [1] .

Hi Gustin , hi Ubuntu Studio users list , pardon LAD

IIUC a HDSPe AIO or DSP 9632 is all I need, if I just need a stereo IO?
I only need to buy a BF-BOXLRMKH or BF-BOCMKH breakout cable?

If I need additional IOs and wish to avoid Multiface firmware issues, I
can add AI4S-192 AIO and AO4S-192 AIO.

If I need much more IOs and don't have enough money for RME IOs, I can
e.g. use a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL by ADAT connection.
The sound quality might be less good and I guess this will add extra
latency and Ardour won't auto-compensate this extra latency
automatically?

As long as I'm using a mobo with PCI slots I can use AI4S-192 AIO and
AO4S-192 AIO with a DSP 9632 and when I switch to a mobo with PCIe only
I can switch from DSP 9632 to HDSPe AIO and keep AI4S-192 AIO and
AO4S-192 AIO (and e.g. a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL ?

Using a DSP 9632 with a PCIe to PCI bridge doesn't work or at least
could cause issues?

Best,

Ralf


[1]
-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Ralf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>
To: linux-audio-user-owner@lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Subscription failed
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 04:40:52 +0200

Hi,

I want to switch from LAD to LAU, regarding to some user queries about
sound cards. When I first tried to subscribe, I made a typo for my email
address, then I tried again without typo, but it failed several times,
without any error messages.

Best,

Ralf


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Old 05-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Ralf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:23 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
>> I would stay away from the Fireface and the multiface (unless you
>> connect the multiface to another interface).
>>
>> FWIW, I have a 9652 PCI card and an RME ADI 8-DS. *If I need more
>> channels there is an Alesis ADAT that I can connect to it, albeit at
>> only 16/48. *It is important to note that the 9652/9652 do not have
>> any ADC/DACs on them and rely on outboard gear for that.
>>
>> This particular rig has been solid and stable for years and has been
>> in 3 different rigs, the latest being an Intel Sandy bridge. *If you
>> can afford it I highly recommend the RME PCI and PCIe solutions.
>> Their Firewire solutions have traditionally been the exact opposite
>> under Linux.
>
> Hm? I tries to switch from LAD to LAU, regarding to current user
> queries, but it failed. Hi Admin [1] .
>
> Hi Gustin , hi Ubuntu Studio users list , pardon LAD
>
> IIUC a HDSPe AIO or DSP 9632 is all I need, if I just need a stereo IO?
> I only need to buy a BF-BOXLRMKH or BF-BOCMKH breakout cable?

There are a number of possible solutions. It sounds like the AIO
might be what you want, but I would ask someone local if you are
unsure (in other words, don't just take my word for it).
>
> If I need additional IOs and wish to avoid Multiface firmware issues, I
> can add AI4S-192 AIO and AO4S-192 AIO.
>
You could add anything that speaks ADAT, assuming you get the PCI/PCIe
card with ADAT connectors on it.

> If I need much more IOs and don't have enough money for RME IOs, I can
> e.g. use a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL by ADAT connection.
> The sound quality might be less good and I guess this will add extra
> latency and Ardour won't auto-compensate this extra latency
> automatically?
>
What latency are you talking about? The only latency this adds is
electrical switching and media conversion + travel time for the
optical signal + the DAC/ADC. The sound quality of Behringer tends to
be lower than other solutions, but this should work.

> As long as I'm using a mobo with PCI slots I can use AI4S-192 AIO and
> AO4S-192 AIO with a DSP 9632 and when I switch to a mobo with PCIe only
> I can switch from DSP 9632 to HDSPe AIO and keep AI4S-192 AIO and
> AO4S-192 AIO (and e.g. a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL ?

This sounds right. If in doubt check with RME. The compatibility of
the add on boards is listed on this page:
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_expansion_boards.php
>
> Using a DSP 9632 with a PCIe to PCI bridge doesn't work or at least
> could cause issues?
>
Never heard of such a thing. I would not trust it, but I tend to be
skeptical of such kludges.

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Old 05-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Ralf
 
Default RME FIREFACE 400? RME MULTIFACE II?

On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 14:09 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Ralf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:23 -0600, Gustin Johnson wrote:
> >> I would stay away from the Fireface and the multiface (unless you
> >> connect the multiface to another interface).
> >>
> >> FWIW, I have a 9652 PCI card and an RME ADI 8-DS. If I need more
> >> channels there is an Alesis ADAT that I can connect to it, albeit at
> >> only 16/48. It is important to note that the 9652/9652 do not have
> >> any ADC/DACs on them and rely on outboard gear for that.
> >>
> >> This particular rig has been solid and stable for years and has been
> >> in 3 different rigs, the latest being an Intel Sandy bridge. If you
> >> can afford it I highly recommend the RME PCI and PCIe solutions.
> >> Their Firewire solutions have traditionally been the exact opposite
> >> under Linux.
> >
> > Hm? I tries to switch from LAD to LAU, regarding to current user
> > queries, but it failed. Hi Admin [1] .
> >
> > Hi Gustin , hi Ubuntu Studio users list , pardon LAD
> >
> > IIUC a HDSPe AIO or DSP 9632 is all I need, if I just need a stereo IO?
> > I only need to buy a BF-BOXLRMKH or BF-BOCMKH breakout cable?
>
> There are a number of possible solutions. It sounds like the AIO
> might be what you want, but I would ask someone local if you are
> unsure (in other words, don't just take my word for it).

I did send a request to my dealer. At the moment I tend to buy a 9632
and if I should switch the mobo one day, I perhaps have to replace it by
the AIO, anyway, the 9632 is less expensive. But I'm undecided.

> >
> > If I need additional IOs and wish to avoid Multiface firmware issues, I
> > can add AI4S-192 AIO and AO4S-192 AIO.
> >
> You could add anything that speaks ADAT, assuming you get the PCI/PCIe
> card with ADAT connectors on it.
>
> > If I need much more IOs and don't have enough money for RME IOs, I can
> > e.g. use a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL by ADAT connection.
> > The sound quality might be less good and I guess this will add extra
> > latency and Ardour won't auto-compensate this extra latency
> > automatically?
> >
> What latency are you talking about? The only latency this adds is
> electrical switching and media conversion + travel time for the
> optical signal + the DAC/ADC. The sound quality of Behringer tends to
> be lower than other solutions, but this should work.

I guess I'll start with just AI4S-192 AIO and AO4S-192 AIO for home
recording. If I should need more channels I'll order a cheap ADAT device
at another time.
More channels might be needed to do rehearsal room recordings, with
cheap microphones, hence the sound quality is less important, "live"
music has an advantage regarding to the feeling compared with home
recording, just for home recording I wish to get the most near
professional sound that is possible by my equipment, but at home I don't
need much channels. 2 for the stereo sum and some to loop in a 19"
reverb or to record drum sounds from a drum module by separated channels
at the same time.

>
> > As long as I'm using a mobo with PCI slots I can use AI4S-192 AIO and
> > AO4S-192 AIO with a DSP 9632 and when I switch to a mobo with PCIe only
> > I can switch from DSP 9632 to HDSPe AIO and keep AI4S-192 AIO and
> > AO4S-192 AIO (and e.g. a BEHRINGER ADA8000 ULTRAGAIN PRO8 DIGITAL ?
>
> This sounds right. If in doubt check with RME. The compatibility of
> the add on boards is listed on this page:
> http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_expansion_boards.php
> >
> > Using a DSP 9632 with a PCIe to PCI bridge doesn't work or at least
> > could cause issues?
> >
> Never heard of such a thing. I would not trust it, but I tend to be
> skeptical of such kludges.

Me too.

Thank you,

Ralf



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