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Old 04-08-2010, 08:59 AM
sandie
 
Default M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on modern Ubuntu

mark wrote:
> [1] gnome depends on pulse, so we have to have it (which begs the
> question, why do we need gnome?)
>
Besause KDE/XFCE isnt as stable as Gnome ? I'm only speaking out of
personal expirence here YMMV.
> [2] the ubuntu hierarchy insist we use pulse (which begs the question,
> wouldn't we be better off working under debian?)
>
A lot of things just work in Ubuntu. I have used Linux (Redhat) as a
webserver for many years, but when Ubuntu came along I was able to
switch to Linux on my desktop also.
Things seam to happen fast in Ubuntu ( allthou some might say TOO fast ).
> I think it's a bit of a joke to have an audio-focussed distro in which
> the first things I have to do post-install are disable some of the
> default features and manually edit settings.
>
I have to agree here, my check-list of things to do after a re-install
grows with every release, sad but true.
but at some point you just want to make some music and not have to
bother with all the technical stuff, and getting to know a new distro is
still more trouble than tweaking Ubuntu so it fits... at least for now.

Regards
Sandie


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Old 04-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Ricardo Lameiro
 
Default M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on modern Ubuntu

Hi all,

About PulseAudio, I can understand some of the reasons why people dislike it.
I am on the process to test the beta (10.04), and one of the most important features is the inclusion of jack on the main repositories.

being said that, the integration with jack software now will be much better, why?
First place the audio software couldn't be compiled and offered as a binary on main, without the other libs being on main.
Now its just a matter of the packager, simple compile them with jack support, including totem.


Why Pulseaudio, well Pulse audio is a platform that tries to unite all the old sound architectures and create a easy Desktop audio framework. Is it perfect? no, thats true, to much latency for pro audio, but for day to day use is very handy. Pleople should also bear in mind that UbuntuStudio is used on desktop machines and laptops, not only "Studio" machines, that the only thing they do is pro audio, that assumption would be ridiculous.

I use pulse for my day to day desktop, and jack for pro audio things. when I start jack, pulse just stops, and everything works, if i want to play something through jack, i use a jack-aware app, like vlc. Why would i want to browse around the web, and look at youtube videos, when i am working on pro audio stuff?


Another thing to have in mind is that pulse audio is not going away, and it will be used by the other distros also. I am not a pulse defender, in fact i don't like it as much i like alsa and jack, but it is like democracy....


About settings made to the ubuntu studio distro I made a little wiki page to discuss a ubuntu studio controls redesign. I would like to have some help from you Sandie the main goal of the redesign is to have a PRO Control Panel for US, that addresses most of the pro users needs. please contribute to the wiki, add tutorials you find to set audio things, new ideas, etc As fast we decide what to put inside, as fast this can be made and maybe we can get it in Maverick.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign

Best regards

Ricardo Lameiro



2010/4/8 sandie <sandie@sandgreen.dk>

mark wrote:

> [1] gnome depends on pulse, so we have to have it (which begs the

> question, why do we need gnome?)

>

Besause KDE/XFCE isnt as stable as Gnome ? I'm only speaking out of

personal expirence here YMMV.

> [2] the ubuntu hierarchy insist we use pulse (which begs the question,

> wouldn't we be better off working under debian?)

>

A lot of things just work in Ubuntu. I have used Linux (Redhat) as a

webserver for many years, but when Ubuntu came along I was able to

switch to Linux on my desktop also.

Things seam to happen fast in Ubuntu ( allthou some might say TOO fast ).

> I think it's a bit of a joke to have an audio-focussed distro in which

> the first things I have to do post-install are disable some of the

> default features and manually edit settings.

>

I have to agree here, my check-list of things to do after a re-install

grows with every release, sad but true.

but at some point you just want to make some music and not have to

bother with all the technical stuff, and getting to know a new distro is

still more trouble than tweaking Ubuntu so it fits... at least for now.



Regards

Sandie





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Old 04-08-2010, 10:20 AM
sandie
 
Default M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on modern Ubuntu

Ricardo Lameiro wrote:
> Another thing to have in mind is that pulse audio is not going away,
> and it will be used by the other distros also. I am not a pulse
> defender, in fact i don't like it as much i like alsa and jack, but it
> is like democracy....
>

I think you are right in assuming that Pulse isnt going away anytime
soon, but still... Pulse and M-audio Audiophile 24/96 seams to be a bad
mix. I havent had any succes getting the two to work together, and thou
the problem might be on the M-audio side, at least it works flawless
with Jack/Alsa.

> About settings made to the ubuntu studio distro I made a little wiki
> page to discuss a ubuntu studio controls redesign. I would like to
> have some help from you Sandie the main goal of the redesign is to
> have a PRO Control Panel for US, that addresses most of the pro users
> needs. please contribute to the wiki, add tutorials you find to set
> audio things, new ideas, etc As fast we decide what to put inside, as
> fast this can be made and maybe we can get it in Maverick.
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign
>

This looks interesting, and I would love to help in any way I can,
unfortunaly my programming skills are limited to hacking away on other
peoples work, after all... I'm just a musician :-)

Regards
Sandie

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Old 04-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Thomas Orgis
 
Default M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on modern Ubuntu

Am Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:44:05 +0100
schrieb Ricardo Lameiro <ricardolameiro@gmail.com>:

> Why Pulseaudio, well Pulse audio is a platform that tries to unite all the
> old sound architectures and create a easy Desktop audio framework.

It is indeed a question why one needs such a sound server on a typical setup. ALSA can do mixing of multiple clients on one device, and it can even route to funky stuff like JACK (or, pulse). I don't day ALSA is perfect (still need to debug ridiculous CPU usage it causes with mpg123 sporadically), but I presume that if it is configured properly and more direct usage of these features irons out bugs, there is no need for pulseaudio.
Apps use ALSA plug devices for normal desktop audio work, one app may exclusively use the hw device if it wants, to cut the middlework -- if the hw can do hardware mixing (I had a laptop once that has an internal sound chip that could mix two streams), it could even be several apps.

Pulse offers tings like a mixer to control all connected clients (at least I remember something like that... not really using it), but I wonder how people really use that. And: There is also the nagging knowledge that the now-GPL OSS offers such control, too, and works beautifully with low overhead, being compatible to any decades-old Linux audio app.

Experience shows that pulseaudio is adding its own problems on top of ALSA problems... I know enough people whose issues with audio were solved by deinstalling pulse. Desktop (laptop) users.

> I use pulse for my day to day desktop, and jack for pro audio things. when I
> start jack, pulse just stops, and everything works, if i want to play
> something through jack, i use a jack-aware app, like vlc. Why would i want
> to browse around the web, and look at youtube videos, when i am working on
> pro audio stuff?

My setup is a bit different: The studio box is wired up to our monitoring system via a firewire box. Any sound it can produce (apart from fan noise and clattering of the hard disks) has to go through JACK.
And yes, in that setup, people want to show each other youtube videos (you know, music videos).
I am aiming for a setup that uses the ALSA JACK plugin to make ALSA-apps simply send their sound through JACK. That seems to work, generally.

And, one ray of light was that totem on my fresh ubuntu install (hijack attempt: please someone have a look at my posts about the issues I have there...) automagically chose JACK as output option, without any configuration on my side (perhaps coincidence, the JACK plugin being the first tried?). Of course I should deactivate the internal audio to make sure apps rather fail to open any output than the silent one.

> Another thing to have in mind is that pulse audio is not going away, and it
> will be used by the other distros also. I am not a pulse defender, in fact i
> don't like it as much i like alsa and jack, but it is like democracy....

I have the suspicion that once pulse has settled it's issues and is the dominant and stable audio solution for desktops, something new will come along and again replace the "old cruft";-)


Alrighty then,

Thomas.

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Old 04-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Daryl Haataja
 
Default M-Audio Audiophile 2496 on modern Ubuntu

It appears, something new always comes around, and we need to get
used, to never, getting used to it. If we don't like it here, Linux
gives us the freedom to leave. Thats a nice, " how do you do ". It
appears to be the way, every distro is being assembled.

So far, my personal experience is, just play. Let the rest, stumble,
and grope, for the " dream " of a good working OS. A person, can just
play, and be happy. No need, to go through, " life in distress ".

" Computing, is the best ! "

Note,... carefully,... and thoughtfully,... ... ...

" Everything I say is a lie ! ".

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Thomas Orgis <thomas-forum@orgis.org> wrote:
> Am Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:44:05 +0100
> schrieb Ricardo Lameiro <ricardolameiro@gmail.com>:
>
>> Why Pulseaudio, well Pulse audio is a platform that tries to unite all the
>> old sound architectures and create a easy Desktop audio framework.
>
> It is indeed a question why one needs such a sound server on a typical setup. ALSA can do mixing of multiple clients on one device, and it can even route to funky stuff like JACK (or, pulse). I don't day ALSA is perfect (still need to debug ridiculous CPU usage it causes with mpg123 sporadically), but I presume that if it is configured properly and more direct usage of these features irons out bugs, there is no need for pulseaudio.
> Apps use ALSA plug devices for normal desktop audio work, one app may exclusively use the hw device if it wants, to cut the middlework -- if the hw can do hardware mixing (I had a laptop once that has an internal sound chip that could mix two streams), it could even be several apps.
>
> Pulse offers tings like a mixer to control all connected clients (at least I remember something like that... not really using it), but I wonder how people really use that. And: There is also the nagging knowledge that the now-GPL OSS offers such control, too, and works beautifully with low overhead, being compatible to any decades-old Linux audio app.
>
> Experience shows that pulseaudio is adding its own problems on top of ALSA problems... I know enough people whose issues with audio were solved by deinstalling pulse. Desktop (laptop) users.
>
>> I use pulse for my day to day desktop, and jack for pro audio things. when I
>> start jack, pulse just stops, and everything works, if i want to play
>> something through jack, i use a jack-aware app, like vlc. Why would i want
>> to browse around the web, and look at youtube videos, when i am working on
>> pro audio stuff?
>
> My setup is a bit different: The studio box is wired up to our monitoring system via a firewire box. Any sound it can produce (apart from fan noise and clattering of the hard disks) has to go through JACK.
> And yes, in that setup, people want to show each other youtube videos (you know, music videos).
> I am aiming for a setup that uses the ALSA JACK plugin to make ALSA-apps simply send their sound through JACK. That seems to work, generally.
>
> And, one ray of light was that totem on my fresh ubuntu install (hijack attempt: please someone have a look at my posts about the issues I have there...) automagically chose JACK as output option, without any configuration on my side (perhaps coincidence, the JACK plugin being the first tried?). Of course I should deactivate the internal audio to make sure apps rather fail to open any output than the silent one.
>
>> Another thing to have in mind is that pulse audio is not going away, and it
>> will be used by the other distros also. I am not a pulse defender, in fact i
>> don't like it as much i like alsa and jack, but it is like democracy....
>
> I have the suspicion that once pulse has settled it's issues and is the dominant and stable audio solution for desktops, something new will come along and again replace the "old cruft";-)
>
>
> Alrighty then,
>
> Thomas.
>
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