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Old 11-22-2007, 09:07 PM
Sergio Bello
 
Default Notation Software

On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 16:58 -0400, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

>
> Plus you haven't come by to ask us when the GTK2 port will be finished. We
> appreciate that.
>
Oh, well: when will the GTK2 port be finished?

Just kidding...

--
Sergio Bello - Software Architect

Sintechno S.r.l. [www.sintechno.it]

--
There are only 10 types of people in the world:
those who understand binary, and those who don't...


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Old 11-22-2007, 09:18 PM
"D. Michael McIntyre"
 
Default Notation Software

On Thursday 22 November 2007, Sergio Bello wrote:

> On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 16:58 -0400, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> > Plus you haven't come by to ask us when the GTK2 port will be finished.
> > We appreciate that.
>
> Oh, well: when will the GTK2 port be finished?
>
> Just kidding...

We've actually had more than two people file feature requests to this effect.

Sure, we'll rewrite the entire GUI in a different toolkit, because all the
guts stuff are supposed to be toolkit-independent. No problem. Just give me
about two hours, and I'll have it finished.

Right after I get rid of all these hot chicks who keep bugging me ever since I
switched to Linux, leaving gifts of gold bullion on my front porch.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Old 11-23-2007, 12:10 AM
"Rafael F. Compte"
 
Default Notation Software

Hi guys,

I'd like to enter the conversation on notation software. Music notation
is one of my main interests. As most classical musicians I am familiar
with Sibelius and Finale and i think I'll risk and say there is no
native replacement yet. After trying a few apps, nowadays I find myself
learning the Lilypond typesetting language, as i think it is really
versatile and a great choice, but not for everyone, because it is
totally different and more difficult, not to mention that most people
would really prefer a GUI. It would be incredible if there were a full
featured graphical front end. There's interesting and promising proyects
like Canorus but on an early stage of development. Most people will
probably agree that Rosegarden is the best choice as a graphical
notation program. It is very good and I really like it, but it is mostly
a sequencer. I'll quote The Rosegarden Handbook:

"Rosegarden aims to present scores with the best possible layout
compatible with its primary focus as a sequencer application. This means
that although the editor supports chords, overlapping and nested beamed
groups, triplets and arbitrary tuplets, grace notes, dynamics, accents,
text and so on, it does not provide as much fine control over layout
(especially in contrapuntal music) as a dedicated score editing program
might. Rosegarden does not aim to produce typeset-quality score,
although it can export LilyPond files, which may form a good basis for
typesetting."

So it doesn't really aim to be a full featured Lilypond front end but it
does provide a good set of features, however not a full set as the best
known proprietary software.

Yours truly,

Rafael F.


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Old 11-23-2007, 12:47 AM
"D. Michael McIntyre"
 
Default Notation Software

On Thursday 22 November 2007, Rafael F. Compte wrote:
> a sequencer. I'll quote The Rosegarden Handbook:

That really threw me for a loop. That didn't sound like me. Oh. The
HANDBOOK. Right. Chris wrote that.

> So it doesn't really aim to be a full featured Lilypond front end but it
> does provide a good set of features, however not a full set as the best
> known proprietary software.

Chris wrote that a long time ago. We don't just export to LilyPond, but since
Heikki Junes came along, we do it so well that we're in transition to making
it our only print engine. Dealing with multiple voices is still a lot more
annoying than it is in a dedicated notation editor, but it has become less
so. The new instrument database thing I did for the release before last or
so along with Magnus Johansson really raises another bar on making us more
notation-oriented.

Many more things are possible now than when that blurb was first written,
because we have changed our vision somewhat, and really pushed the limits of
what is possible in this environment. (Lots of credit to me for this, if I
do say so myself. When I came here, Chris was completely determined that
there was no such thing as B#, period.) LilyPond helps by making a lot of
default layout decisions that are really good, and its output almost always
looks dramatically better than what we draw on the screen.

But it's true that not everything is possible, and Rosegarden will never be a
Finale replacement. If there is any hope there, it's with one of the
notation-driven programs, or with a fork of Rosegarden that cuts away the
conflicting features that make so many notation goals difficult to the point
of being just short of impossible.

Though I don't think anything is actually completely impossible. We've dreamt
up some pretty wild what if solutions that would probably work. But we still
have bugs from 2004 we don't have time or inclination to fix. We're never
going to get into anything that deeply convoluted unless someone wins the
lottery.

The one thing Finale and Sibelius have on all of us on the Linux notation
scene is they have big price tags that presumably keep a number of people
employed full-time. That is the hardest gap of all to bridge. Damn day job.
Or more importantly, damn Chris's day job. He's really very good at this
when he has a rare moment to really get rolling full tilt. I am far less
good, but more reluctant to settle for doing things half assed, like the
stupid B# thing.

Anyway, I'll go take a look at mScore now that I upgraded to Gutsy, and will
be able to compile it now. Maybe mScore is our true best hope for a
Finale/Sibelius killer. It certainly seems to have the right kind of design
goals in mind to fill that niche.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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