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Old 09-12-2008, 09:59 PM
"Maca Cassar"
 
Default newbie question - grub

hi, i have a bit of a problem installing ubuntu studio on a sata disk because of grub, it always fails.

in a nutshell - i have tried different linux dists these past few months to test - also planet ccrma and other non audio production types, but eventually got to ubuntu studio and only did a test install about a month ago.


it is no longer installed right now and i want to reinstall it for proper use, but the problem i am having is not limited to ub-studio, and i mean i have come across this before.

basically i have 3 large disks and i always use a whole one for each os -> 1 is IDE and has windows64, and is normally recognised as the first disk, whether or not it is set as boot in bios.

the other 2 are sata, one is free (where i want studio64), and one has freebsd (which i'm using as main os and can run most popular open source audio programs - but i am still learning about the os and it is beyond my expertise to optimize as a production system).


i am not sure wether grub fails because the drives are sata or because they are not the firstt disks, i eventually had wiped the IDE drive and tried studio64 there, and it worked no problem, but i later needed to reinstall windows on that drive and want studio64 another drive.


What happens is that the os installs ok, but then grub fails and it don't know much about playnig with it - either manual install of what, or whether lilo is good - haven't tried.

should i be having this problem?


p.s. also, on a different note and out of curiousity ( since i don't know much about linux), is there a technical reason studio 64 is ubuntu as opposed to other linux? or just a matter of preference?

thanks


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Old 09-13-2008, 03:26 PM
"Christopher Stamper"
 
Default newbie question - grub

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Maca Cassar <raszobbi@gmail.com> wrote:

hi, i have a bit of a problem installing ubuntu studio on a sata disk because of grub, it always fails.
How are you installing it? Through the ubuntu setup?

When prompted, are you allowing it to install on the Master Boot Record of the first drive, or the first sector?



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Old 09-13-2008, 07:57 PM
raszobbi
 
Default newbie question - grub

Christopher Stamper wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Maca Cassar <raszobbi@gmail.com
> <mailto:raszobbi@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> hi, i have a bit of a problem installing ubuntu studio on a sata
> disk because of grub, it always fails.
>
>
> How are you installing it? Through the ubuntu setup?
>
> When prompted, are you allowing it to install on the Master Boot
> Record of the first drive, or the first sector?
>
yes, through the ubuntu setup (entirely off install disc); although i
have managed now but not 100% sure why.

previously when it used to fail, most of the time i think i was trying
to install it on the same disk as the os, since i have 3 disks, 3 OSes,
but use their own bootloader and just change the boot device from bios
or menu if i need to change, since i stick to one os in long phases and
don't need to change so often. also makes it easier to make changes to
one disk without messing up other boot loaders.

this time i just let it go on its own, and it found windows loader on
first disk, and it added it to grub
menu. i have first IDE drive as boot in bios and dual boot in grub now.
I can live with this.

thanks for your reply. if not wasting your time, could you confirm this
is the case ? for futher ref..

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Old 09-13-2008, 08:02 PM
"Christopher Stamper"
 
Default newbie question - grub

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:57 PM, raszobbi <raszobbi@gmail.com> wrote:



previously when it used to fail, most of the time i think i was trying

to *install it on the same disk as the os, since i have 3 disks, 3 OSes,

but use their own bootloader and just change the boot device from bios

or menu if i need to change, since i stick to one os in long phases and

don't need to change so often. also makes it easier to make changes to

one disk without messing up other boot loaders.



this time i just let it go on its own, and it found windows loader on

first disk, and it added it to grub

*menu. i have first IDE drive as boot in bios and dual boot in grub now.

I can live with this.



thanks for your reply. if not wasting your time, could you confirm this

is the case ? for futher ref..
I'm not completely sure exactly what you did...

Normally, though, it is best to let it find the OS's and install GRUB where it wants to (MBR).

At any rate, GRUB needs to be installed on the first primary boot disk. Otherwise it won't boot. Somewhere in BIOS you should be able to change boot order, or just install it on the first disk's MBR.


Hope this helps.

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Old 09-13-2008, 08:52 PM
raszobbi
 
Default newbie question - grub

Christopher Stamper wrote:





On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:57 PM, raszobbi <raszobbi@gmail.com>
wrote:



previously when it used to fail, most of the time i think i was trying

to *install it on the same disk as the os, since i have 3 disks, 3 OSes,

but use their own bootloader and just change the boot device from bios

or menu if i need to change, since i stick to one os in long phases and

don't need to change so often. also makes it easier to make changes to

one disk without messing up other boot loaders.



this time i just let it go on its own, and it found windows loader on

first disk, and it added it to grub

*menu. i have first IDE drive as boot in bios and dual boot in grub now.

I can live with this.



thanks for your reply. if not wasting your time, could you confirm this

is the case ? for futher ref..


I'm not completely sure exactly what you did...



Normally, though, it is best to let it find the OS's and install GRUB
where it wants to (MBR).



At any rate, GRUB needs to be installed on the first primary boot disk.
Otherwise it won't boot. Somewhere in BIOS you should be able to change
boot order, or just install it on the first disk's MBR.



Hope this helps.





yes, it confirms where i was not clear on. thanks.



p.s. this is a very nice os. i love how fast and responsive it is, even
as a desktop/office stuff. plus all 64bit.



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Old 09-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default newbie question - grub

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Maca Cassar wrote:
> hi, i have a bit of a problem installing ubuntu studio on a sata disk
> because of grub, it always fails.
>
Because of your desired configuration it fails. GRUB works fine, and
can be made to do what you want.

> in a nutshell - i have tried different linux dists these past few months
> to test - also planet ccrma and other non audio production types, but
> eventually got to ubuntu studio and only did a test install about a
> month ago.
>
> it is no longer installed right now and i want to reinstall it for
> proper use, but the problem i am having is not limited to ub-studio, and
> i mean i have come across this before.
>
You may wish to become very familiar with the GRUB documentation:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/

> basically i have 3 large disks and i always use a whole one for each os
> -> 1 is IDE and has windows64, and is normally recognised as the first
> disk, whether or not it is set as boot in bios.

This disk is one that you install GRUB into the MBR of.

> the other 2 are sata, one is free (where i want studio64), and one has
> freebsd (which i'm using as main os and can run most popular open source
> audio programs - but i am still learning about the os and it is beyond
> my expertise to optimize as a production system).
>
> i am not sure wether grub fails because the drives are sata or because
> they are not the firstt disks, i eventually had wiped the IDE drive and
> tried studio64 there, and it worked no problem, but i later needed to
> reinstall windows on that drive and want studio64 another drive.
>
No, it has nothing to do with SATA drives. You have 3 drives, with 3
OSs. You need to sort out the bootloader. GRUB is probably your best
bet for booting all 3, and it also needs to be installed on the primary
drive, where the BIOS looks to start booting an OS.

> What happens is that the os installs ok, but then grub fails and it
> don't know much about playnig with it - either manual install of what,
> or whether lilo is good - haven't tried.
>
> should i be having this problem?

Yes. Triple boot is asking for pain. It can work, but it is also a bit
of a headache to maintain. You need to keep track of which bootloader
is installed on the primary disk, and then make sure that it knows where
all the OSs are. GRUB supports more OSs than Lilo.

You will have to set up GRUB manually with a rescue CD. I use
systemrescuecd but there are a number of them that do the job.
>
> p.s. also, on a different note and out of curiousity ( since i don't
> know much about linux), is there a technical reason studio 64 is ubuntu
> as opposed to other linux? or just a matter of preference?
>
The current version of 64Studio is Debian based and their future PC
releases will remain so. Ubuntu is a Debian derivative and so it should
be reasonably straight forward for the 64Studio guys to do their custom
work around Ubuntu.

Hth,
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:37 PM
"Maca Cassar"
 
Default newbie question - grub

I'm not completely sure exactly what you did...



Normally, though, it is best to let it find the OS's and install GRUB
where it wants to (MBR).



At any rate, GRUB needs to be installed on the first primary boot disk.
Otherwise it won't boot. Somewhere in BIOS you should be able to change
boot order, or just install it on the first disk's MBR.



Hope this helps.





yes, it confirms where i was not clear on. thanks.



sorry, what i meant to say is that i was not so clear on where MBR is exactly and what role the first disk plays. recently i found out that windows still wanted to install its boot loader on my first disk, even when i was installing on another disk, which was even set as first boot device in bios; *for nothing* in my opinion. ...and grub seems similar, apparently.


my confusion i think was in understanding between MBR and what i think to be the boot sectors of each disk.*
*

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Old 09-14-2008, 07:06 AM
Karlheinz Noise
 
Default newbie question - grub

> this time i just let it go on its own, and it found windows loader on
> first disk, and it added it to grub

One thing you should consider:

All versions of Windows need to boot from the BIOS boot partition. That is, if you are pointing your BIOS to the C: drive as your primary partition, then Windows needs to boot from the C: drive.

This is something that is hard-coded into Windows, and you cannot change it. I believe that Windows thinks that booting from a non-primary partition is some sort of "security risk" or something equally backwards.

I found this out the hard way. I had a dual-boot of Win98 and Win2000, with Win98 on the primary boot partition, and I tried re-formatting the Win98 partition to install Linux. As a result, the whole computer was unusable. I had to install Win2K on the primary partition, and then install Linux afterwards.

Don't know if that's your situation, but if I'd have known this I would have saved myself a lot of trouble. Hope it helps.

-Karlheinz
_________________________________
http://www.khznoise.net/karlheinz

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Old 09-14-2008, 10:42 AM
Gustin Johnson
 
Default newbie question - grub

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Hash: SHA1

Karlheinz Noise wrote:
>> this time i just let it go on its own, and it found windows loader on
>> first disk, and it added it to grub
>
> One thing you should consider:
>
> All versions of Windows need to boot from the BIOS boot partition. That
> is, if you are pointing your BIOS to the C: drive as your primary
> partition, then Windows needs to boot from the C: drive.
>
> This is something that is hard-coded into Windows, and you cannot change
> it. I believe that Windows thinks that booting from a non-primary
> partition is some sort of "security risk" or something equally backwards.

You can actually get GRUB to work around this bug/feature in Windows.
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#DOS_002fWindows

Again, I strongly recommend an RTFM in this case.


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Old 09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
"Maca Cassar"
 
Default newbie question - grub

>

You may wish to become very familiar with the GRUB documentation:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/



Jesus, this is like an encyclopedia. maybe i'll wait for the movie to come out.

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