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Rodrigo Carrasco 09-04-2008 12:56 PM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
Hi people, I recently shifted my desktop PC to Ubuntu Studio and I'm
already loving it, impressed that all the applications worked out of
the box with the audigy 2 platinum sound card and then of course,
impressed with JACK, the titan. What I want to do is use that machine
as an audio server to control and master the final output of the sound.
For instance I would like to plug my laptop thinkpad (with windows xp
and ableton) to the desktop machine running Ubuntu Studio for using some apps and the sound card also. I connected
both through a firewire cable, but somehow machines are not seeing each
other. Probably I need to install something or open some ports, but I'm
a bit clueless.
If someone could please give me a hand! :)



Rodrigo








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Gustin Johnson 09-04-2008 07:37 PM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
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Rodrigo Carrasco wrote:
> Hi people, I recently shifted my desktop PC to Ubuntu Studio and I'm
> already loving it, impressed that all the applications worked out of the
> box with the audigy 2 platinum sound card and then of course, impressed
> with JACK, the titan. What I want to do is use that machine as an audio
> server to control and master the final output of the sound. For instance
> I would like to plug my laptop thinkpad (with windows xp and ableton) to
> the desktop machine running Ubuntu Studio for using some apps and the
> sound card also. I connected both through a firewire cable, but somehow
> machines are not seeing each other. Probably I need to install something
> or open some ports, but I'm a bit clueless.
> If someone could please give me a hand! :)
>
I am not sure what it is you want to do. Are you trying to network the
two computers together with firewire? Even then what do you hope to
accomplish? Are you trying to share files (ie. PCM .wav or some such)?
Are trying to do the final mixing etc. on the linux box? Are you
trying to have Ableton show up in your Jack list of inputs/outputs?

You can output PCM (.wav) files from your Windows machine to the
Desktop, but I am not aware of a netjack for windows that allows your
laptop with Windows to participate directly with Jack on your Ubuntu
Studio Desktop. I know that this is possible if your laptop was also
running Linux (http://netjack.sourceforge.net/). Of course I routinely
import wav and flac files from people with Windows or Mac based DAWs.

Perhaps restating the question with your ideal outcome will help us to
understand what you are trying to do, and hopefully be able to help you
to accomplish it.

Hth,
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Rodrigo Carrasco 09-05-2008 09:51 AM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
Thanks for your reply. Let me clarify a bit. What I want, is to use the
linux box to receive audio from other computers in order to manipulate
it in realtime. Basically like you said, to display Ableton as an input
in the Jack list. I'm thinking in two ways to do that:





1) to output from windows through an audio cable (red & white) to
the linux box with the audigy card. I'm guessing that would require
just some actions in the Jack audio connection kit, though I didn't
manage yet how to do that. The thing with this solution is that the use
of the cable puts an analog step in the transferring of the sound,
right? Does it mean audio loss of some kind?





2) ideally, the solution would be to use the audigy card (linux box) as
a direct output for Ableton (winxp laptop). I was thinking that a
firewire cable connecting both machines and some installation of
drivers would do the job but it doesn't. Would a USB cable or any type
of connection do it or am I asking apples to an oak tree?





Thanks again for reading and let me know if I need to explain it better. ;)


Cheers,


Rodrigo




Gustin Johnson wrote:I am not sure what it is you want to do. Are you trying to network the
two computers together with firewire? Even then what do you hope to
accomplish? Are you trying to share files (ie. PCM .wav or some such)?
Are trying to do the final mixing etc. on the linux box? Are you
trying to have Ableton show up in your Jack list of inputs/outputs?

You can output PCM (.wav) files from your Windows machine to the
Desktop, but I am not aware of a netjack for windows that allows your
laptop with Windows to participate directly with Jack on your Ubuntu
Studio Desktop. I know that this is possible if your laptop was also
running Linux (http://netjack.sourceforge.net/). Of course I routinely
import wav and flac files from people with Windows or Mac based
DAWs.

Perhaps restating the question with your ideal outcome will help us to
understand what you are trying to do, and hopefully be able to help you
to accomplish it.









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Gustin Johnson 09-06-2008 12:07 AM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Rodrigo Carrasco wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. Let me clarify a bit. What I want, is to use the
> linux box to receive audio from other computers in order to manipulate
> it in realtime. Basically like you said, to display Ableton as an input
> in the Jack list. I'm thinking in two ways to do that:
>
> 1) to output from windows through an audio cable (red & white) to the
> linux box with the audigy card. I'm guessing that would require just
> some actions in the Jack audio connection kit, though I didn't manage
> yet how to do that. The thing with this solution is that the use of the
> cable puts an analog step in the transferring of the sound, right? Does
> it mean audio loss of some kind?

Digital to audio to digital, yes there will be loss. Unless you have
some sort of digital out on the windows machine and some sort of digital
input on the Linux machine. If real-time is important, than this is the
option you want. Alternatively you could output a .wav or .flac to
import into your Linux workstation.

I use qjackctl to start jack and set up all the routing.

> 2) ideally, the solution would be to use the audigy card (linux box) as
> a direct output for Ableton (winxp laptop). I was thinking that a
> firewire cable connecting both machines and some installation of drivers
> would do the job but it doesn't. Would a USB cable or any type of
> connection do it or am I asking apples to an oak tree?
>
More like Apples from a Tiger Shark. If JACK and netjack worked under
Windows, then this could be an option. I am not aware of any solution
that utilizes USB or firewire and is cross platform.

Best of luck.
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"Dirk Detering" 09-12-2008 06:58 AM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
> 2) ideally, the solution would be to use the audigy card (linux box) as


> a direct output for Ableton (winxp laptop). I was thinking that a

> firewire cable connecting both machines and some installation of drivers

> would do the job but it doesn't. Would a USB cable or any type of

> connection do it or am I asking apples to an oak tree?

>

More like Apples from a Tiger Shark. *If JACK and netjack worked under

Windows, then this could be an option. *I am not aware of any solution

that utilizes USB or firewire and is cross platform.



Interesting topic.

Thinking of why it does not work currently:
If you use an external sound card connected via USB, the computer
sends and receives digital data through the device driver.


As a windows machine as well as a Linux machine is able to
work with the same external machine, it seems to be
imaginable that the Jack I/O works against a USB connected sound
card driver and the windows I/O too.

So what's the problem?

The problem is that each of the two computers waits to dectect the
"connected device" to setup the right driver.*
So no one of the both computers stands up and says:

"Here I am, your Sound Service Providing Device".

It is like a girl and a boy each sitting on their telephone and waiting
for the call** ;-) .

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mbutubuntu 09-12-2008 07:23 PM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
Hello folks!!!
Hello Rodrigo...
I think the solution is using an ethernet cable... by USB or firewire
it's impossible to do what you need...
You have so two options:

1) using an audio cable... the only problem is that you'll have a little
audio loss caused by the digital TO analog TO digital conversion and
you'll be able to "send" a number of channels limited by the analog
outputs of your laptop (I think only 2).

2) the second option, the better but the most difficult, is using
PureData and it's netsend~ netreceive~ objects. You'll be able to send
up to 32 channels on a 100Mbit LAN. PureData must run on the both linux
and windows machines and jack will see the PureData channels.

Fabio [mbutUbuntu] Buda
http://mbutubuntu.homelinux.org


Dirk Detering wrote:
>
> > 2) ideally, the solution would be to use the audigy card (linux
> box) as
> > a direct output for Ableton (winxp laptop). I was thinking that a
> > firewire cable connecting both machines and some installation of
> drivers
> > would do the job but it doesn't. Would a USB cable or any type of
> > connection do it or am I asking apples to an oak tree?
> >
> More like Apples from a Tiger Shark. If JACK and netjack worked under
> Windows, then this could be an option. I am not aware of any solution
> that utilizes USB or firewire and is cross platform.
>
>
>
> Interesting topic.
>
> Thinking of why it does not work currently:
> If you use an external sound card connected via USB, the computer
> sends and receives digital data through the device driver.
>
> As a windows machine as well as a Linux machine is able to
> work with the same external machine, it seems to be
> imaginable that the Jack I/O works against a USB connected sound
> card driver and the windows I/O too.
> So what's the problem?
>
> The problem is that each of the two computers waits to dectect the
> "connected device" to setup the right driver.
> So no one of the both computers stands up and says:
> "Here I am, your Sound Service Providing Device".
>
> It is like a girl and a boy each sitting on their telephone and waiting
> for the call ;-) .


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Steve Meiers 09-14-2008 07:54 PM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
There's some interesting stuff going on using Ethernet to send audio and midi, including synchronization. If fact, there have been some professional recording sessions done this way with artists in different cities working in real time. Of course for that you need a very fast Internet provider at both ends, probably not practical for your typical home studio... yet anyway.

BUT, within a local studio, sending audio and midi data between machines via Ethernet should be possible. Gbit Ethernet cards are getting pretty cheap and routers, too. I forsee the death of midi as hardware connection, with USB as the interim. Ethernet is just getting so fast, cheap and prevalent that it seems the logical way to do audio too.* Picture instead of an expensive snake, you just run a Cat5 cable between stage (server, ADCs and Ethernet) and the FOH mixer, which is
just a workstation and a hardware interface only. Forget sending audio everywhere, keep it on a specialized server and let all the control, recording, routing, etc, be done remote via Ethernet. Think of it like your bank card. You don't carry all the money around with you, the store just calls up wnat it needs when you make a transaction. You only have to move what data is really necessary.

Back to how this relates to Ubuntu:
I haven't seen Ethernet midi drivers yet for Linux, but I have for windose and I would bet that if none are yet available for Linux, they will be soon. Gibson offers a Les Paul with Ethernet and other instruments are not far behind. These days, conversion is cheap enough to put the ADCs in the instruments (Behringer sells USB guitars already for $150) and you're good to go. Look at all the multiFX for guitar with USB built in and you can see where it's going. Instead of mixers, we will most likely have standard routers
(ok, maybe fast ones) with mixer software that can accept Ethernet connections for audio data. And Ubuntu Studio will be there, too. Ubuntu Studio is the best OS for audio and it's only getting better.

tekrytor




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Hartmut Noack 09-14-2008 11:15 PM

connecting ubuntu studio with other machines
 
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Steve Meiers schrieb:
>
>
> Picture instead of an expensive snake, you just run a Cat5 cable between stage (server, ADCs and Ethernet) and the FOH mixer,
> which is just a workstation and a hardware interface only. Forget
sending audio everywhere, keep it on a specialized server
> and let all the control, recording, routing, etc, be done remote via
Ethernet.

http://www.multitrack.us/linux.html
mention the screenshot - its ardour0.9x - Ron Parker masters with Linux
for some time now and he keeps the data on a RAID-Server that delivers
via Ethernet.


> Back to how this relates to Ubuntu:
> I haven't seen Ethernet midi drivers yet for Linux,

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/man/man1/aseqnet.1.html

this works quite easy and stable for up to ten computers - I did a
project last year with it: 8 computers running Linux from LiveCDs
playing as single instruments getting their notes from my laptop running
Rosegarden:

http://lapoc.de/news-blip.php
(sorry - in german only...)

Another network-capable way to deliver and fetch MIDI in Linux is OSC,
more flexible but not as easy to use...

> Gibson offers a Les Paul with Ethernet and other instruments are not far behind.

If this one sends generic WAV-Data with a generic streamprotocol it
should work in Linux also. The best method to have WAV via Ethernet
under Linux is netjack:
http://netjack.sourceforge.net/

you see - there is even more as you might have expected on GNU/Linux
already.I guess, if you plan something of the above (like having a
FOH-Mixer working via Ethernet), Linux can give you, what you need...


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