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Old 02-08-2008, 04:47 PM
Mathias Gug
 
Default - Mentoring program

Hi,

Following discussions from a previous meeting [1] and on IRC, I'd like
to start a mentoring program. The objective is to get more people
on-board and help in one or more of the activities the Server Team is
leading.

[1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080130

Similar programs already exist in other teams, such as the MOTU mentoring
program [2] or the Documentation Team mentoring program [3].

[2]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[3]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring

The target population are users that just want get involved in the
Server Team but don't really know where to begin with due to the
overwhelming amount of information there is about Ubuntu Development.

The receptionist of the mentoring program would assign potential
contributors to a member of the Server Team, that would help him to get
started contributing.

The role of the mentor is to help the new member choosing and starting
to contribute in an area he has interest in. Emphasis should be put on
presenting existing processes, communication channels and key members of
the Server Team and Ubuntu in general.

More specifically:

* Even though the initial communication can be hold privately, the
mentor should push for using public channels (IRC channels,
existing mailing lists) in order to fully integrate the new member
in the team.
* The mentee activities should be added to the Meeting agenda as soon
as being defined and reviewed during each meeting.

Existing Server Team members can enrol in the program as mentors on a
voluntary basis. They can specify what area of expertise they have (eg.
mail servers, directories or general). That information is then used to
refine the assignment process.

This is just a brain dump of ideas that emerge after having discussions
with various people. Suggestions and comments are welcomed.

I would especially like to hear (publicly or privately) from users that
would like to contribute but haven't taken the first step yet. What is
refraining you from getting involved ? Let me know and may be we can
fix it.

It's all about helping you to take this first step.

--
Mathias Gug
Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com

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Old 02-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default - Mentoring program

On Friday 08 February 2008 12:47, Mathias Gug wrote:

> * Even though the initial communication can be hold privately, the
> mentor should push for using public channels (IRC channels,
> existing mailing lists) in order to fully integrate the new member
> in the team.

This answers my most pressing concern with the existing MOTU mentors program.
I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help their
mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they may not sponsor
themselves.

This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor in the
position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially harm that
relationship if they are unable to sponsor.

Scott K

--
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More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:46 PM
Nicolas Valcarcel
 
Default - Mentoring program

This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading the
minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit themselves on
putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to find the
documentation about what they are trying to do, not just saying what to
do and think for them or do for them. The mentors should just be with
the mentees and help them to find his/her way, not to walk with them by
the hand.

About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the mentors
to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he has said, and
second because most of the time the mentors help the mentees to make the
patches/fixes so they can not recheck they mentees work thinking that
he/she has made exactly what they have been told to do and the correct
way, so there can be little errors or mischecked changes uploaded.

On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday 08 February 2008 12:47, Mathias Gug wrote:
>
> > * Even though the initial communication can be hold privately, the
> > mentor should push for using public channels (IRC channels,
> > existing mailing lists) in order to fully integrate the new member
> > in the team.
>
> This answers my most pressing concern with the existing MOTU mentors program.
> I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help their
> mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they may not sponsor
> themselves.
>
> This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor in the
> position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially harm that
> relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
>
> Scott K
>
--
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:32 PM
Mathias Gug
 
Default - Mentoring program

On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help their
> > mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they may not sponsor
> > themselves.
> >
> > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor in the
> > position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially harm that
> > relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> >
> > Scott K
> This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading the
> minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit themselves on
> putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to find the
> documentation about what they are trying to do, not just saying what to
> do and think for them or do for them. The mentors should just be with
> the mentees and help them to find his/her way, not to walk with them by
> the hand.
>
> About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the mentors
> to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he has said, and
> second because most of the time the mentors help the mentees to make the
> patches/fixes so they can not recheck they mentees work thinking that
> he/she has made exactly what they have been told to do and the correct
> way, so there can be little errors or mischecked changes uploaded.

That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The first
impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?) upload
should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also removes the
need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding the whole
packaging environment is already complicated.

Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.

--
Mathias Gug
Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:34 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default - Mentoring program

On Friday 08 February 2008 17:32, Mathias Gug wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help their
> > > mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they may not
> > > sponsor themselves.
> > >
> > > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor in
> > > the position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially harm
> > > that relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> > >
> > > Scott K
> >
> > This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> > new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> > exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading the
> > minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit themselves on
> > putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to find the
> > documentation about what they are trying to do, not just saying what to
> > do and think for them or do for them. The mentors should just be with
> > the mentees and help them to find his/her way, not to walk with them by
> > the hand.
> >
> > About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the mentors
> > to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he has said, and
> > second because most of the time the mentors help the mentees to make the
> > patches/fixes so they can not recheck they mentees work thinking that
> > he/she has made exactly what they have been told to do and the correct
> > way, so there can be little errors or mischecked changes uploaded.
>
> That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The first
> impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?) upload
> should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also removes the
> need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding the whole
> packaging environment is already complicated.
>
> Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
> sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Scott K

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Old 02-08-2008, 09:34 PM
"Michael Behrens"
 
Default - Mentoring program

On Feb 8, 2008 12:47 PM, Mathias Gug <mathiaz@ubuntu.com> wrote:

Hi,

Following discussions from a previous meeting [1] and on IRC, I'd like
to start a mentoring program. The objective is to get more people
on-board and help in one or more of the activities the Server Team is

leading.

The target population are users that just want get involved in the
Server Team but don't really know where to begin with due to the
overwhelming amount of information there is about Ubuntu Development.


Agreed.

As for expectations of such a program, I think from my perspective I would
be looking for pointers to information & resources to get started learning the
proper "Ubuntu" method of doing things.* Followed with the ability to ask

followup questions as needed.

I agree with the comments made by ScottK and others that the program
shouldn't be hand-holding and that mentors cannot sponsor the mented (if
that is a proper word).* There should be a clear dilineation between work

done by the individual and support provided by the mentor.


Michael
/ faulkes-


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Old 02-08-2008, 09:47 PM
Nicolas Valcarcel
 
Default - Mentoring program

mmm i'm not fully happy with that, maybe we can have a sponsor process
inside the metoring program, so other sponsors can upload it quickly, so
the mentor helps the mentee fixing the bug, then shows him how to
request for sponsorship (subscribing ubuntu-*-sponsors) and then ping
another sever team member (and also mentor ?) to upload the package, so
the mentees don't ask his mentor every time to upload the package and
has his/her change uploaded quickly or get angry when on the 3th upload
the mentors says "use sponsorship i won't upload your packages anymore".

On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 17:34 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday 08 February 2008 17:32, Mathias Gug wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help their
> > > > mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they may not
> > > > sponsor themselves.
> > > >
> > > > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor in
> > > > the position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially harm
> > > > that relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > >
> > > This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> > > new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> > > exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading the
> > > minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit themselves on
> > > putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to find the
> > > documentation about what they are trying to do, not just saying what to
> > > do and think for them or do for them. The mentors should just be with
> > > the mentees and help them to find his/her way, not to walk with them by
> > > the hand.
> > >
> > > About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the mentors
> > > to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he has said, and
> > > second because most of the time the mentors help the mentees to make the
> > > patches/fixes so they can not recheck they mentees work thinking that
> > > he/she has made exactly what they have been told to do and the correct
> > > way, so there can be little errors or mischecked changes uploaded.
> >
> > That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The first
> > impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?) upload
> > should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also removes the
> > need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding the whole
> > packaging environment is already complicated.
> >
> > Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
> > sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.
>
> Sounds reasonable to me.
>
> Scott K
>
--
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Peruvian LoCo Team
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:59 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default - Mentoring program

Top posting fixed. Please don't.

On Friday 08 February 2008 17:47, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 17:34 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > On Friday 08 February 2008 17:32, Mathias Gug wrote:
> > > On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > > > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help
> > > > > their mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they
> > > > > may not sponsor themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor
> > > > > in the position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially
> > > > > harm that relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> > > > new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> > > > exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading
> > > > the minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit
> > > > themselves on putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to
> > > > find the documentation about what they are trying to do, not just
> > > > saying what to do and think for them or do for them. The mentors
> > > > should just be with the mentees and help them to find his/her way,
> > > > not to walk with them by the hand.
> > > >
> > > > About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the
> > > > mentors to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he
> > > > has said, and second because most of the time the mentors help the
> > > > mentees to make the patches/fixes so they can not recheck they
> > > > mentees work thinking that he/she has made exactly what they have
> > > > been told to do and the correct way, so there can be little errors or
> > > > mischecked changes uploaded.
> > >
> > > That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The
> > > first impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?)
> > > upload should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also
> > > removes the need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding
> > > the whole packaging environment is already complicated.
> > >
> > > Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
> > > sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.
> >
> > Sounds reasonable to me.
> >
> > Scott K
> mmm i'm not fully happy with that, maybe we can have a sponsor process
> inside the metoring program, so other sponsors can upload it quickly, so
> the mentor helps the mentee fixing the bug, then shows him how to
> request for sponsorship (subscribing ubuntu-*-sponsors) and then ping
> another sever team member (and also mentor ?) to upload the package, so
> the mentees don't ask his mentor every time to upload the package and
> has his/her change uploaded quickly or get angry when on the 3th upload
> the mentors says "use sponsorship i won't upload your packages anymore".
>
The main point of this is to promote team integration. As soon as you create
a special sponsor's process, then you defeat that aim.

Scott K

--
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More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 02-09-2008, 02:21 AM
"Loye Young"
 
Default - Mentoring program

list@ubuntu-server:~$ for word in $("mentee" "mented"); do rm $word;
echo "protegé"; done;


>
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 4:59 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> > Top posting fixed. Please don't.
> >
> >
> > On Friday 08 February 2008 17:47, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 17:34 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > > On Friday 08 February 2008 17:32, Mathias Gug wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > > > > > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help
> > > > > > > their mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they
> > > > > > > may not sponsor themselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor
> > > > > > > in the position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially
> > > > > > > harm that relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scott K
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> > > > > > new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> > > > > > exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading
> > > > > > the minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit
> > > > > > themselves on putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to
> > > > > > find the documentation about what they are trying to do, not just
> > > > > > saying what to do and think for them or do for them. The mentors
> > > > > > should just be with the mentees and help them to find his/her way,
> > > > > > not to walk with them by the hand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the
> > > > > > mentors to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he
> > > > > > has said, and second because most of the time the mentors help the
> > > > > > mentees to make the patches/fixes so they can not recheck they
> > > > > > mentees work thinking that he/she has made exactly what they have
> > > > > > been told to do and the correct way, so there can be little errors or
> > > > > > mischecked changes uploaded.
> > > > >
> > > > > That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The
> > > > > first impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?)
> > > > > upload should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also
> > > > > removes the need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding
> > > > > the whole packaging environment is already complicated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
> > > > > sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds reasonable to me.
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > mmm i'm not fully happy with that, maybe we can have a sponsor process
> > > inside the metoring program, so other sponsors can upload it quickly, so
> > > the mentor helps the mentee fixing the bug, then shows him how to
> > > request for sponsorship (subscribing ubuntu-*-sponsors) and then ping
> > > another sever team member (and also mentor ?) to upload the package, so
> > > the mentees don't ask his mentor every time to upload the package and
> > > has his/her change uploaded quickly or get angry when on the 3th upload
> > > the mentors says "use sponsorship i won't upload your packages anymore".
> > >
> > The main point of this is to promote team integration. As soon as you create
> > a special sponsor's process, then you defeat that aim.
> >
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-server mailing list
> > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
> > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Loye Young
> Isaac & Young Computer Company
> Laredo, Texas
> (956) 857-1172
> loye.young@iycc.net
>



--
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loye.young@iycc.net
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Nicolas Valcárcel
 
Default - Mentoring program

I mean to "create" a special sponsoring process for the first uploads to
be done quickly, but only internal process, for the mentee, would be
equal as normal process, the only thing which changes between the normal
process and the process i'm asking for is that in the "new" one the
mentor would ask for some sponsor to upload the package quickly so the
mentee see his change upload soon.


On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 17:59 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> Top posting fixed. Please don't.
>
> On Friday 08 February 2008 17:47, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 17:34 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > On Friday 08 February 2008 17:32, Mathias Gug wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:46:43PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 12:56 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > > > > I would go a bit further and suggest that while a mentor can help
> > > > > > their mentee get changes sponsored (where this is relevant), they
> > > > > > may not sponsor themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This enourages integration with the team and avoids putting mentor
> > > > > > in the position of having to say no to ther mentee and potentially
> > > > > > harm that relationship if they are unable to sponsor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scott K
> > > > >
> > > > > This idea has a +1 for me, but i want to add some comments about. The
> > > > > new contributors (people who start contributing) most of the time are
> > > > > exited to start helping and they want to start NOW, no after reading
> > > > > the minimal documentation needed, so the mentors should limit
> > > > > themselves on putting goals to their mentees, and show them where to
> > > > > find the documentation about what they are trying to do, not just
> > > > > saying what to do and think for them or do for them. The mentors
> > > > > should just be with the mentees and help them to find his/her way,
> > > > > not to walk with them by the hand.
> > > > >
> > > > > About what Scott mentioned there should also be a policy of the
> > > > > mentors to not sponsors their mentees work, first for the thing he
> > > > > has said, and second because most of the time the mentors help the
> > > > > mentees to make the patches/fixes so they can not recheck they
> > > > > mentees work thinking that he/she has made exactly what they have
> > > > > been told to do and the correct way, so there can be little errors or
> > > > > mischecked changes uploaded.
> > > >
> > > > That raises the point of being reactive at the very beginning. The
> > > > first impression counts. So I'd suggest that the first (and second ?)
> > > > upload should be done by the mentor to get things going. It also
> > > > removes the need to read about the Sponsorship process - understanding
> > > > the whole packaging environment is already complicated.
> > > >
> > > > Once the first upload is done, the mentor should redirect to the
> > > > sponsorship process and the MOTU ressources for further help.
> > >
> > > Sounds reasonable to me.
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > mmm i'm not fully happy with that, maybe we can have a sponsor process
> > inside the metoring program, so other sponsors can upload it quickly, so
> > the mentor helps the mentee fixing the bug, then shows him how to
> > request for sponsorship (subscribing ubuntu-*-sponsors) and then ping
> > another sever team member (and also mentor ?) to upload the package, so
> > the mentees don't ask his mentor every time to upload the package and
> > has his/her change uploaded quickly or get angry when on the 3th upload
> > the mentors says "use sponsorship i won't upload your packages anymore".
> >
> The main point of this is to promote team integration. As soon as you create
> a special sponsor's process, then you defeat that aim.
>
> Scott K
>
--
aka nxvl
Peruvian LoCo Team
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