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Old 08-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

On Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:19:05 am Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman
> >> >> <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
> >> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400
2010:
> >> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions
> >> >> >> > about the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands?
> >> >> >> > #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room
> >> >> >> > like #ubuntu-vm for virtual machines that would include xen,
> >> >> >> > kvm, virsh, virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
> >> >> >> * e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
> >> >> >> * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a *
> >> >> >> virtual machine, getting it installed, configuration/management
> >> >> >> of services, virtualization, etc.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
> >> >> >> * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
> >> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
> >> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic
> >> >> > in #ubuntu- server. I object to this change. #ubuntu-server has
> >> >> > been a joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.
> >> >> > It's the one place in the Ubuntu project where users and
> >> >> > developers are on the same channels (yes, some developers are on
> >> >> > user channels, to help, but that's different). We discussed this
> >> >> > very change not very long ago and the consensus was not to change
> >> >> > it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
> >> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed
> >> >> > separately (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the
> >> >> > discussion so soon).
> >> >>
> >> >> Scott,
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
> >> >> development discussion perspective. There's plenty of
> >> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
> >> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic. No one is getting kicked/banned
> >> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
> >> >> devel (in my opinion).
> >> >>
> >> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
> >> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the
> >> >> landscape for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the
> >> >> maze for our users seeking cloud-related support.
> >> >>
> >> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
> >> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel. As I remember it,
> >> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
> >> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
> >> >> user support channel. I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
> >> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
> >> >
> >> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
> >> > "Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear
> >> > to me.
> >>
> >> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true. Development discussion
> >> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
> >>
> >> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
> >> #ubuntu-server.
> >>
> >> Have you gotten that impression? Does the above policy deserve some
> >> clarification? Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
> >> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
> >> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server. That's just
> >> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
> >
> > I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of
> > development discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being
> > mentioned in #ubuntu-devel.
> >
> > When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel
> > even needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development
> > discussions are supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).
> >
> > I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as
> > written it certainly appears to me that it does.
>
> Okay, shall we ask Ahmed to update his proposal to note that "sever"
> specific development discussion should continue in #ubuntu-devel?
> Would that assuage your concerns, Scott?
>
I'd propose this as a revision:

1) Traditional server development and discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
* e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a virtual machine,
getting it installed, configuration/management of services,
virtualization, etc.
* e.g. server package packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.

2) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
* e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2, cloud work loads,
ensemble cloud magic, etc.

Scott K

--
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ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Dustin Kirkland
 
Default Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:19:05 am Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman
>> >> >> <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
>> >> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400
> 2010:
>> >> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions
>> >> >> >> > about the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands?
>> >> >> >> > #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room
>> >> >> >> > like #ubuntu-vm for virtual machines that would include xen,
>> >> >> >> > kvm, virsh, virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> * 1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
>> >> >> >> * * ** e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> * 2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
>> >> >> >> * * ** e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a *
>> >> >> >> virtual machine, getting it installed, configuration/management
>> >> >> >> of services, virtualization, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> * 3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
>> >> >> >> * * ** e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
>> >> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
>> >> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic
>> >> >> > in #ubuntu- server. *I object to this change. *#ubuntu-server has
>> >> >> > been a joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.
>> >> >> > *It's the one place in the Ubuntu project where users and
>> >> >> > developers are on the same channels (yes, some developers are on
>> >> >> > user channels, to help, but that's different). *We discussed this
>> >> >> > very change not very long ago and the consensus was not to change
>> >> >> > it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
>> >> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed
>> >> >> > separately (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the
>> >> >> > discussion so soon).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Scott,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
>> >> >> development discussion perspective. *There's plenty of
>> >> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
>> >> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic. *No one is getting kicked/banned
>> >> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
>> >> >> devel (in my opinion).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
>> >> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the
>> >> >> landscape for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the
>> >> >> maze for our users seeking cloud-related support.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
>> >> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel. *As I remember it,
>> >> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
>> >> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
>> >> >> user support channel. *I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
>> >> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
>> >> > *"Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear
>> >> > to me.
>> >>
>> >> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true. *Development discussion
>> >> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
>> >>
>> >> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
>> >> #ubuntu-server.
>> >>
>> >> Have you gotten that impression? *Does the above policy deserve some
>> >> clarification? *Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
>> >> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
>> >> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server. *That's just
>> >> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
>> >
>> > I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of
>> > development discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being
>> > mentioned in #ubuntu-devel.
>> >
>> > When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel
>> > even needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development
>> > discussions are supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as
>> > written it certainly appears to me that it does.
>>
>> Okay, shall we ask Ahmed to update his proposal to note that "sever"
>> specific development discussion should continue in #ubuntu-devel?
>> Would that assuage your concerns, Scott?
>>
> I'd propose this as a revision:
>
> 1) Traditional server development and discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
> * * * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a virtual machine,
> * * * getting it installed, configuration/management of services,
> * * * virtualization, etc.
> * ** e.g. server package packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
>
> 2) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
> ** e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2, cloud work loads,
> * *ensemble cloud magic, etc.

No objections here. Thanks, Scott.

:-Dustin

--
ubuntu-server mailing list
ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 08-12-2010, 04:29 PM
Ahmed Kamal
 
Default Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

On 08/12/2010 05:26 PM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On 11/08/2010 23:02, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>
>> Have you gotten that impression? Does the above policy deserve some
>> clarification? Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
>> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
>> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server. That's just
>> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
>>
> +1, if all server, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, etc development had to be
> discussed on ubuntu-devel it would get quite noisy there. It's easier
> for people to just subscribe to the more specific development lists
> they're interested in and keeping ubuntu-devel for the stuff that's
> common to more developers. Also, traffic on ubuntu-server is quite low,
> doesn't really sound worth while splitting it into a -devel list
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
I think we're all on an agreement here. Thanks everyone for the feedback

--
ubuntu-server mailing list
ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 

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