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Old 01-12-2008, 05:16 PM
Ante Karamatić
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

Hi!

As some of you know, I've been working on better out-of-the-box dovecot
and postfix integration in Ubuntu.

Status of the work is at:

https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837

We kind of all agreed on having this integrated trough task in tasksel.
Last debdiff provided there should be enough for this kind of setup.

Since these are all good changes for everybody, there are ideas on
moving this out of tasksel and into packages. This way everybody would
benefit from our changes.

I didn't do anything since last debdiff, so I would like to hear pros
and cons that that last idea (moving everything into packages).
Basically, if someone would install postfix, he automatically would get
dovecot-common (note that this isn't IMAP/POP3 daemon, but a SASL
component) and preconfigured system for Maildir.

I was supposed to present this on couple of last meetings, but I was
unable to attend them. New proposed meeting time should be much better.

Thanks

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Old 01-18-2008, 07:12 AM
Ante Karamatić
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

Hi!

As some of you know, I've been working on better out-of-the-box dovecot
and postfix integration in Ubuntu.

Status of the work is at:

https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837

We (at ubuntu-server meetings in Boston) kind of all agreed on having
this integrated trough task in tasksel. Last debdiff provided there
should be enough for this kind of setup.

Since these are all good changes for everybody, there are ideas on
moving this out of tasksel and into packages. This way everybody would
benefit from our changes.

I didn't do anything since last debdiff, so I would like to hear pros
and cons for that last idea (moving everything into packages).
Basically, if someone would install postfix, he would automatically get
dovecot-common (note that this isn't IMAP/POP3 daemon, but a SASL
component), SASL-AUTH and preconfigured system for Maildir.

Those that are on ubuntu-server list will find this message redundant,
but I got suggestion to send it here for broader review.

Thank you

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Old 01-18-2008, 08:41 AM
Soren Hansen
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 07:16:05PM +0100, Ante Karamatić wrote:
> As some of you know, I've been working on better out-of-the-box
> dovecot and postfix integration in Ubuntu.

o/


> Status of the work is at:
>
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
>
> We kind of all agreed on having this integrated trough task in tasksel.
> Last debdiff provided there should be enough for this kind of setup.

I'm still not convinved this is the right approach.

> Since these are all good changes for everybody, there are ideas on
> moving this out of tasksel and into packages. This way everybody would
> benefit from our changes.

Yes.

> I didn't do anything since last debdiff, so I would like to hear pros
> and cons that that last idea (moving everything into packages).
> Basically, if someone would install postfix, he automatically would
> get dovecot-common (note that this isn't IMAP/POP3 daemon, but a SASL
> component) and preconfigured system for Maildir.

I'm not sure about switching to Maildir. I definitely think Maildir is a
major improvement over mbox, but I'm worried too many things still
depend on /var/spool/mail/$USERNAME to be where the user's mail is at. I
could be totally wrong, but we need to check it.

If we focus on the SASL stuff for a little bit, IIRC my last proposal
was to make postfix's init script do something like:

if [ -x /usr/sbin/dovecot ]
then
# Use http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46677/ to grab the socket path
if [ ! -e /etc/postfix/dovecot_sasl_configured ]
then
# Set the SASL stuff up (like in your debdiff)
postconf -e 'blahblah'
else
SASL_SOCKET="`parsestuff "auth default" "socket" "client" "path"`"
mount -o bind "${SASL_SOCKET}" /var/spool/postfix/private/auth
fi
fi

How does that look?

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Old 01-18-2008, 09:20 AM
Ante Karamatić
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:41:52 +0100
Soren Hansen <soren@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure about switching to Maildir. I definitely think Maildir
> is a major improvement over mbox, but I'm worried too many things
> still depend on /var/spool/mail/$USERNAME to be where the user's mail
> is at. I could be totally wrong, but we need to check it.

I would say that those things are broken then. If we decide to go with
Maildir, then we should just append 'dir=~/Maildir' for every
pam_mail.so in /etc/pam.d. Other than that, some minor changes
in /etc/login.defs (optional). If program doesn't respect pam or
login.defs, then it's broken

> If we focus on the SASL stuff for a little bit, IIRC my last proposal
> was to make postfix's init script do something like:
>
> if [ -x /usr/sbin/dovecot ]
> then
> # Use http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46677/ to grab the socket path
> if [ ! -e /etc/postfix/dovecot_sasl_configured ]
> then
> # Set the SASL stuff up (like in your debdiff)
> postconf -e 'blahblah'
> else
> SASL_SOCKET="`parsestuff "auth default" "socket" "client"
> "path"`" mount -o bind
> "${SASL_SOCKET}" /var/spool/postfix/private/auth fi
> fi
>
> How does that look?

I see some problems with it, but this could be explained in
documentation (i.e. if someone configures auth mechanism in main.cf
and leaves dovecot_sasl_configured, it could get funny). But I do like
the idea, maybe we should use postconf to find out if auth mechanism is
configured and then decide what to do...

LaMont?

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Old 01-18-2008, 10:39 AM
Matt Zimmerman
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 09:12:44AM +0100, Ante Karamatić wrote:
> As some of you know, I've been working on better out-of-the-box dovecot
> and postfix integration in Ubuntu.
>
> Status of the work is at:
>
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
>
> We (at ubuntu-server meetings in Boston) kind of all agreed on having
> this integrated trough task in tasksel. Last debdiff provided there
> should be enough for this kind of setup.
>
> Since these are all good changes for everybody, there are ideas on
> moving this out of tasksel and into packages. This way everybody would
> benefit from our changes.
>
> I didn't do anything since last debdiff, so I would like to hear pros
> and cons for that last idea (moving everything into packages).
> Basically, if someone would install postfix, he would automatically get
> dovecot-common (note that this isn't IMAP/POP3 daemon, but a SASL
> component), SASL-AUTH and preconfigured system for Maildir.
>
> Those that are on ubuntu-server list will find this message redundant,
> but I got suggestion to send it here for broader review.

If the only side effect is some additional dependencies, I think it would be
better to merge the integration changes into the packages rather than having
packages dynamically reconfigured when a new package is installed.

--
- mdz

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Old 01-18-2008, 12:34 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Dovecot and Postfix integration

On Friday 18 January 2008 04:41, Soren Hansen wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 07:16:05PM +0100, Ante Karamatić wrote:
> > As some of you know, I've been working on better out-of-the-box
> > dovecot and postfix integration in Ubuntu.
>
> o/
>
> > Status of the work is at:
> >
> > https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
> >
> > We kind of all agreed on having this integrated trough task in tasksel.
> > Last debdiff provided there should be enough for this kind of setup.
>
> I'm still not convinved this is the right approach.
>
> > Since these are all good changes for everybody, there are ideas on
> > moving this out of tasksel and into packages. This way everybody would
> > benefit from our changes.
>
> Yes.
>
> > I didn't do anything since last debdiff, so I would like to hear pros
> > and cons that that last idea (moving everything into packages).
> > Basically, if someone would install postfix, he automatically would
> > get dovecot-common (note that this isn't IMAP/POP3 daemon, but a SASL
> > component) and preconfigured system for Maildir.
>
> I'm not sure about switching to Maildir. I definitely think Maildir is a
> major improvement over mbox, but I'm worried too many things still
> depend on /var/spool/mail/$USERNAME to be where the user's mail is at. I
> could be totally wrong, but we need to check it.

I think that's equally true for mbox, so I don't think it argues either way
for the format (I like the idea of checking it).

> If we focus on the SASL stuff for a little bit, IIRC my last proposal
> was to make postfix's init script do something like:
>
> if [ -x /usr/sbin/dovecot ]
> then
> # Use http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46677/ to grab the socket path
> if [ ! -e /etc/postfix/dovecot_sasl_configured ]
> then
> # Set the SASL stuff up (like in your debdiff)
> postconf -e 'blahblah'
> else
> SASL_SOCKET="`parsestuff "auth default" "socket" "client" "path"`"
> mount -o bind "${SASL_SOCKET}" /var/spool/postfix/private/auth
> fi
> fi
>
> How does that look?

I'm fairly certain I don't like the idea of having the init script edit
main.cf. Perhaps some similar magic could be added to the dovecot postinst?
Having the init mess with main.cf seems risky and fragile (I could be totally
wrong on this, it's just a gut feel).

Lamont and I recently had a discussion on Postfix transition from Postfix 2.4
to 2.5 in Hardy. Weitse has said he plans another patch update for Postfix
2.4 just after Postfix 2.5 is released. We currently have Postfix 2.4 in the
release pocket for Gutsy and in backports for Dapper/Edgy/Feisty (plus or
minus .1 you can run the same Postfix on every Ubuntu release from an
official (yes, I know not all commercially supported) Ubuntu repository).

Our plan is to not bring Postfix 2.5 into Hardy as soon as it's released, but
to wait for this last Postfix 2.4 bug fix, upload that to Hardy and, after
suitable testing, backport it to Dapper/Edgy/Feisty/Gutsy (Dapper will need a
source backport due to libdb transition to 4.6), and then bring Postfix 2.5
into Hardy.

Please hold off on any experimental changes to the Postfix package until
Postfix 2.5 lands.

Scott K

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