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Old 01-14-2009, 05:33 PM
"Dustin Kirkland"
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

Hi Ubuntu Server-

I'm hoping there are a few people out there who are willing and
interested in testing the Ubuntu screen profile contained in the new
Jaunty Universe package, screen-profiles. For more information and
screenshots:
* http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/01/ubuntu-jaunty-testing-screen-profiles.html

I've been testing it within gnome-terminal and on tty consoles. I
haven't tried it within konsole, or other terminals. I'd be keen to
get some feedback on those!

If you're running Jaunty, you can simply:
$ sudo apt-get install screen-profiles

However, this same package works just fine on Hardy and Intrepid as
well. In this case, you can download the latest .deb binary build
from:
* http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/screen-profiles/

And install it with:
$ sudo dpkg -i screen-profiles*.deb

Once it's installed, you will need to select the Ubuntu screen profile with:
$ select-screen-profile

You should be greeted with a help window defining the hotkeys, and a
menu where you can perform a few other customizations, such as
toggling on/off whether screen should automatically launch on every
login.

I'm hoping to get a Main Inclusion Report filed this week to begin the
process of including this flashy new feature on the Ubuntu server iso.
We're looking for some feedback first.

Please file bugs in Launchpad. If you're interested in contributing
to Ubuntu server development, this project involves Shell and Python
code, and is maintained in bzr at lp:screen-profiles.

Cheers,
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Tiago 'gouki' Faria
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

Hi all,


Interesting! I'll get back to you on any issues I found.

Thanks for the great job.
--
_
,--(_)
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`--(_) WWW: http://goukihq.org


On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 12:33 -0600, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> Hi Ubuntu Server-
>
> I'm hoping there are a few people out there who are willing and
> interested in testing the Ubuntu screen profile contained in the new
> Jaunty Universe package, screen-profiles. For more information and
> screenshots:
> * http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/01/ubuntu-jaunty-testing-screen-profiles.html
>
> I've been testing it within gnome-terminal and on tty consoles. I
> haven't tried it within konsole, or other terminals. I'd be keen to
> get some feedback on those!
>
> If you're running Jaunty, you can simply:
> $ sudo apt-get install screen-profiles
>
> However, this same package works just fine on Hardy and Intrepid as
> well. In this case, you can download the latest .deb binary build
> from:
> * http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/screen-profiles/
>
> And install it with:
> $ sudo dpkg -i screen-profiles*.deb
>
> Once it's installed, you will need to select the Ubuntu screen profile with:
> $ select-screen-profile
>
> You should be greeted with a help window defining the hotkeys, and a
> menu where you can perform a few other customizations, such as
> toggling on/off whether screen should automatically launch on every
> login.
>
> I'm hoping to get a Main Inclusion Report filed this week to begin the
> process of including this flashy new feature on the Ubuntu server iso.
> We're looking for some feedback first.
>
> Please file bugs in Launchpad. If you're interested in contributing
> to Ubuntu server development, this project involves Shell and Python
> code, and is maintained in bzr at lp:screen-profiles.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> :-Dustin
>
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Mark Schouten
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 12:33 -0600, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> Hi Ubuntu Server-
>
> I'm hoping there are a few people out there who are willing and
> interested in testing the Ubuntu screen profile contained in the new
> Jaunty Universe package, screen-profiles. For more information and
> screenshots:
> * http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/01/ubuntu-jaunty-testing-screen-profiles.html
>
> I've been testing it within gnome-terminal and on tty consoles. I
> haven't tried it within konsole, or other terminals. I'd be keen to
> get some feedback on those!

I'll try to use it for a while, see how it goes.

Just a question though. Why is ctrl-a changed to ctrl-g?


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Old 01-15-2009, 08:29 PM
"Dustin Kirkland"
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Mark Schouten <mark@prevented.net> wrote:
> I'll try to use it for a while, see how it goes.

Thanks!

> Just a question though. Why is ctrl-a changed to ctrl-g?

On Ubuntu (and most Linux systems), the default shell uses emacs
keybindings. As such, ctrl-a is very often used (if you're not an
emacs user) to move the cursor to the beginning of the line.

The default screen escape sequence, ctrl-a, breaks that.

We have had extensive discussions, and the consensus was that the
escape sequence would need to be changed.

We've settle on ctrl-g, which was proposed by Nick Barcet. Perhaps he
can attest as to why ctrl-g was chosen? Nick?

Perhaps we should conduct a poll in Launchpad? I'd think that we can
change this escape sequence pretty much any time between now and
Jaunty's official release in April. But I don't want to change it
more than once.

Shall we open the floor for other suggested escape sequences? Please
explain your rationale for why your escape sequence is better than
ctrl-a and ctrl-g...

Cheers,
:-Dustin

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Old 01-15-2009, 09:09 PM
Mark Schouten
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 15:29 -0600, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> The default screen escape sequence, ctrl-a, breaks that.
>
> We have had extensive discussions, and the consensus was that the
> escape sequence would need to be changed.
>
> We've settle on ctrl-g, which was proposed by Nick Barcet. Perhaps he
> can attest as to why ctrl-g was chosen? Nick?
>
> Perhaps we should conduct a poll in Launchpad? I'd think that we can
> change this escape sequence pretty much any time between now and
> Jaunty's official release in April. But I don't want to change it
> more than once.
>
> Shall we open the floor for other suggested escape sequences? Please
> explain your rationale for why your escape sequence is better than
> ctrl-a and ctrl-g...

I see.

However, imho there are three points here:
1: Lot's of people do not have a clue what ctrl-a does. Since Ubuntu
focuses on ease of use, it also automatically attrackts less experienced
users who will not know what ctrl-a is.
2: Experienced screen-users will default to ctrl-a since that's what
they're using for years.
3: Ctrl-a can be done using one hand. ctrl-a space/$digit switches
windows. Maybe it's me, but I don't feel like pressing ctrl-g is a
comfortable move, typing wise.

Anywho, this is just my point of view. Maybe other screen users have a
very different opinion.

If there allready was an extensive discussion, don't let me be the one
to start that process all over again. (But do consider my personal view
above )


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Old 01-15-2009, 09:16 PM
"Alan Pope"
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

2009/1/15 Mark Schouten <mark@prevented.net>:
> Anywho, this is just my point of view. Maybe other screen users have a
> very different opinion.
>

+1 everything you said. I've _never_ used ctrl+a _other_ than with screen.

Cheers,
Al.

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Old 01-15-2009, 09:32 PM
"Dustin Kirkland"
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mark Schouten <mark@prevented.net> wrote:
> However, imho there are three points here:
> 1: Lot's of people do not have a clue what ctrl-a does. Since Ubuntu
> focuses on ease of use, it also automatically attrackts less experienced
> users who will not know what ctrl-a is.
> 2: Experienced screen-users will default to ctrl-a since that's what
> they're using for years.
> 3: Ctrl-a can be done using one hand. ctrl-a space/$digit switches
> windows. Maybe it's me, but I don't feel like pressing ctrl-g is a
> comfortable move, typing wise.
>
> Anywho, this is just my point of view. Maybe other screen users have a
> very different opinion.
>
> If there allready was an extensive discussion, don't let me be the one
> to start that process all over again. (But do consider my personal view
> above )

Ah, thanks for sharing your point of view! That's what this is about.

I'm all for doing this democratically... Let's get some proposals
(one of which can be to leave ctrl-a as the escape sequence), and run
a poll on Launchpad.

The floor is hereby open for proposals!

:-Dustin

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Old 01-15-2009, 09:35 PM
Kees Cook
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:09:51PM +0100, Mark Schouten wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 15:29 -0600, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> > Shall we open the floor for other suggested escape sequences? Please
> > explain your rationale for why your escape sequence is better than
> > ctrl-a and ctrl-g...

I had voted for ctrl-z since it's rare that I background processes, and is
very close to ctrl-a.

> 1: Lot's of people do not have a clue what ctrl-a does. Since Ubuntu
> focuses on ease of use, it also automatically attrackts less experienced
> users who will not know what ctrl-a is.

Less experienced users won't likely have an opinion if they don't already
use screen.

> 2: Experienced screen-users will default to ctrl-a since that's what
> they're using for years.

This is true, but I think it's worth discussing what would make the most
general sense, if we're suggesting a set of defaults. ctrl-a conflicts
with editor motions, so it's not a clear-cut winner.

> 3: Ctrl-a can be done using one hand. ctrl-a space/$digit switches
> windows. Maybe it's me, but I don't feel like pressing ctrl-g is a
> comfortable move, typing wise.

Ctrl-anything can be done with one hand... if you mean left-handed, "g" is
still on the left hand. The traditional qwerty split is "g" on the left.

I still like ctrl-z, but hey, that's what .screenrc is for.

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Ubuntu Security Team

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Old 01-15-2009, 09:48 PM
Nicolas Valcárcel
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

I have no problem with control-g now, i've been testing screen-profiles
since the start and at the beginning it was quite hard (sometimes i
still type cntrl-a before remembering that it's -g) but now i'm quite
used to that, is just a change, as when someone change from an OS to
other that is going to feel weird at the beginning but will love at the
end.

I'm happy with -g, but as kees said, that's what .screenrc is for.

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 14:35 -0800, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:09:51PM +0100, Mark Schouten wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 15:29 -0600, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> > > Shall we open the floor for other suggested escape sequences? Please
> > > explain your rationale for why your escape sequence is better than
> > > ctrl-a and ctrl-g...
>
> I had voted for ctrl-z since it's rare that I background processes, and is
> very close to ctrl-a.
>
> > 1: Lot's of people do not have a clue what ctrl-a does. Since Ubuntu
> > focuses on ease of use, it also automatically attrackts less experienced
> > users who will not know what ctrl-a is.
>
> Less experienced users won't likely have an opinion if they don't already
> use screen.
>
> > 2: Experienced screen-users will default to ctrl-a since that's what
> > they're using for years.
>
> This is true, but I think it's worth discussing what would make the most
> general sense, if we're suggesting a set of defaults. ctrl-a conflicts
> with editor motions, so it's not a clear-cut winner.
>
> > 3: Ctrl-a can be done using one hand. ctrl-a space/$digit switches
> > windows. Maybe it's me, but I don't feel like pressing ctrl-g is a
> > comfortable move, typing wise.
>
> Ctrl-anything can be done with one hand... if you mean left-handed, "g" is
> still on the left hand. The traditional qwerty split is "g" on the left.
>
> I still like ctrl-z, but hey, that's what .screenrc is for.
>
> --
> Kees Cook
> Ubuntu Security Team

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Old 01-15-2009, 09:55 PM
Michael Hipp
 
Default Call for testing screen-profiles

Mark Schouten wrote:
> However, imho there are three points here:
> 1: Lot's of people do not have a clue what ctrl-a does. Since Ubuntu
> focuses on ease of use, it also automatically attrackts less experienced
> users who will not know what ctrl-a is.
> 2: Experienced screen-users will default to ctrl-a since that's what
> they're using for years.
> 3: Ctrl-a can be done using one hand. ctrl-a space/$digit switches
> windows. Maybe it's me, but I don't feel like pressing ctrl-g is a
> comfortable move, typing wise.
>
> Anywho, this is just my point of view. Maybe other screen users have a
> very different opinion.
>
> If there allready was an extensive discussion, don't let me be the one
> to start that process all over again. (But do consider my personal view
> above )

I give everything Mark said a +1.

- Otherwise, is someone going to change the screen man and help pages to
reflect this "non standard" key choice? Will they re-do this every time
upstream changes them?

- The zillions of screen HOW-TOs and articles all over the web will now not
work if you're running Ubuntu.

- This now means that *every* system must have the new profiles or else screen
just won't work the same and every action will require entirely too much
pre-thinking.

- My hand knows how to do Ctrl-a and I really don't want to try to train it for
something else. Muscle memory is valuable.

Ctrl-a is the master key in screen. It shouldn't be changed lightly.

My vote: stick with what works and stay with Ctrl-a

Michael

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