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Old 11-20-2007, 08:43 PM
Mathias Gug
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

Hi,

Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online, with
the irc logs, here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071120.


== Review ACTION points from previous meeting ==

zul wrote a wiki page detailing his plans for Xen in the next release:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenInHardy. The blueprint can be tracked in
Launchpad at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xen-hardy.

soren sent an email to debian-devel about the mta meta-package proposal.
The thread turned into a discussion about which mta (postfix or exim)
should be the default.

ACTION: soren will try to send another email about it.

== sudo bug discussion ==

dendrobates raised the issue that some server installations wouldn't
create a user that has sudo powers. Some reviews ran into that bug. The
forums also have some threads about it. dendrobates and nijaba tried to
reproduce the problem, but were not successful.

There are a couple of bugs in LP:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/user-setup/+bug/158952
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/user-setup/+bug/162638

dendrobates asked if people could do various test installs to check if
this bug can be reproduced. If so, please comment on one of the above
bug.

== Hardy community projects ==

dendrobates asked for help on the Ruby On Rails specification:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/rubyonrails. The
scpecification is being written in the wiki:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack.

lionel volunteered to take a look at it since he has some experience
with RoR. He will contact david to start working on the draft. mathiaz
stated that he could be the approver, but the spec needs to be written
and approved by Thursday to get it included in Hardy.

Anyone interested in improving the Ruby on Rails stack for Ubuntu should
comment on this spec.

ivoks, sommer and dantalizing offered some help for the implementation.

ACTION: lionel will contact david to write the ruby-on-rails spec.

== JeOS support/documentation for gutsy, plans for hardy ==

nealmcb started to talk about JeOS (Just Enough Operating System). A
long discussion followed. It seems that people are confused about what
JeOS can be used for.

The first issue identified was lack of documentation. nijaba stated that
he will write a tutorial about using JeOS to build a virtual appliance
providing a web application.

ACTION: nijaba will write a tutorial about JeOS.

An important source of confusion is the difference between the script
used to produce a customized virtual image (or iso) and the
customization made to Ubuntu to run as a guest.

nealmcb suggested to create a launchpad team and a mailing list for
users and developers of JeOS.

ACTION: mathiaz will answer nealmcb post on ubuntu-server.

== Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap ==

ivoks gave an update about integrating postfix and dovecot: to goal is
to replace saslauthd with dovecot. This means adding 1 or 2 lines to
postfix configuration when dovecot is installed. There was some
discussion about how this should be done. mathiaz suggested to file a
bug against dovecot to track work being done on this.

sommer mentioned that the documentation has been updated to use Dovecot
SASL.

ACTION: ivoks will file a bug about this and will start working on the
packaging bits.

mathiaz mentioned the state of fastcgi. He wanted to know what were the
advantage of mod-fcgid over mod-fastcgi. The next step is to write a MIR
for mod-fcgid to get it included into main.

ACTION: ivoks will write a MIR for mod-fcgid.

== Other business ==

dholbach mentioned the sponsoring queue for server packages:
http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/.

soren pointed out the list of pending sru:
http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html. There's a few
server packages on there that need testing before they can make their
way to -updates.

mathiaz also noted that the focus of the development team is currently
on merges.

== Next Meeting ==

mathiaz asked if another meeting was needed in one week (instead of
every other week). The answer was positive.

The time has also been pushed back by one hour (due to DST).

The next meeting will be hold on Tuesday, November the 27th, at 16:00
UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

--
Mathias

--
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 11-21-2007, 06:15 PM
David Portwood
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

Lionel contacted me, just waiting to hear back from him. I am
interested in following up with this, I'm not exactly sure where to
start on the spec at, is there some template I can follow? I work with
RoR daily, in both the deployment side of applications and the
development side. This is something I'd love to see in hardy.
Thanks,
David P.
On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 16:43 -0500, Mathias Gug wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online, with
> the irc logs, here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071120.
>
>
> == Review ACTION points from previous meeting ==
>
> zul wrote a wiki page detailing his plans for Xen in the next release:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenInHardy. The blueprint can be tracked in
> Launchpad at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xen-hardy.
>
> soren sent an email to debian-devel about the mta meta-package proposal.
> The thread turned into a discussion about which mta (postfix or exim)
> should be the default.
>
> ACTION: soren will try to send another email about it.
>
> == sudo bug discussion ==
>
> dendrobates raised the issue that some server installations wouldn't
> create a user that has sudo powers. Some reviews ran into that bug. The
> forums also have some threads about it. dendrobates and nijaba tried to
> reproduce the problem, but were not successful.
>
> There are a couple of bugs in LP:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/user-setup/+bug/158952
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/user-setup/+bug/162638
>
> dendrobates asked if people could do various test installs to check if
> this bug can be reproduced. If so, please comment on one of the above
> bug.
>
> == Hardy community projects ==
>
> dendrobates asked for help on the Ruby On Rails specification:
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/rubyonrails. The
> scpecification is being written in the wiki:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack.
>
> lionel volunteered to take a look at it since he has some experience
> with RoR. He will contact david to start working on the draft. mathiaz
> stated that he could be the approver, but the spec needs to be written
> and approved by Thursday to get it included in Hardy.
>
> Anyone interested in improving the Ruby on Rails stack for Ubuntu should
> comment on this spec.
>
> ivoks, sommer and dantalizing offered some help for the implementation.
>
> ACTION: lionel will contact david to write the ruby-on-rails spec.
>
> == JeOS support/documentation for gutsy, plans for hardy ==
>
> nealmcb started to talk about JeOS (Just Enough Operating System). A
> long discussion followed. It seems that people are confused about what
> JeOS can be used for.
>
> The first issue identified was lack of documentation. nijaba stated that
> he will write a tutorial about using JeOS to build a virtual appliance
> providing a web application.
>
> ACTION: nijaba will write a tutorial about JeOS.
>
> An important source of confusion is the difference between the script
> used to produce a customized virtual image (or iso) and the
> customization made to Ubuntu to run as a guest.
>
> nealmcb suggested to create a launchpad team and a mailing list for
> users and developers of JeOS.
>
> ACTION: mathiaz will answer nealmcb post on ubuntu-server.
>
> == Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap ==
>
> ivoks gave an update about integrating postfix and dovecot: to goal is
> to replace saslauthd with dovecot. This means adding 1 or 2 lines to
> postfix configuration when dovecot is installed. There was some
> discussion about how this should be done. mathiaz suggested to file a
> bug against dovecot to track work being done on this.
>
> sommer mentioned that the documentation has been updated to use Dovecot
> SASL.
>
> ACTION: ivoks will file a bug about this and will start working on the
> packaging bits.
>
> mathiaz mentioned the state of fastcgi. He wanted to know what were the
> advantage of mod-fcgid over mod-fastcgi. The next step is to write a MIR
> for mod-fcgid to get it included into main.
>
> ACTION: ivoks will write a MIR for mod-fcgid.
>
> == Other business ==
>
> dholbach mentioned the sponsoring queue for server packages:
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/.
>
> soren pointed out the list of pending sru:
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html. There's a few
> server packages on there that need testing before they can make their
> way to -updates.
>
> mathiaz also noted that the focus of the development team is currently
> on merges.
>
> == Next Meeting ==
>
> mathiaz asked if another meeting was needed in one week (instead of
> every other week). The answer was positive.
>
> The time has also been pushed back by one hour (due to DST).
>
> The next meeting will be hold on Tuesday, November the 27th, at 16:00
> UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
>
> --
> Mathias
>


--
ubuntu-server mailing list
ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 11-21-2007, 07:11 PM
Mathias Gug
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

Hi David,

On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 01:15:51PM -0600, David Portwood wrote:
> > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/rubyonrails. The
> > scpecification is being written in the wiki:
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack.
> Lionel contacted me, just waiting to hear back from him. I am
> interested in following up with this, I'm not exactly sure where to
> start on the spec at, is there some template I can follow? I work with
> RoR daily, in both the deployment side of applications and the
> development side. This is something I'd love to see in hardy.

I think you've already started a spec on the wiki. Now it just needs to
be written.

Looking at the wiki page, I would do the following:
* expand the rationale section to explain what doesn't work now.
* in the Use case section, describe what should be the user experience
once the spec is implemented.
* in the Implementation section, describe which changes should be made
to the different packages.
For example, you mentioned editing configuration files. Detail which
ones, which packages should be changed and how.

You can refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate to get some
advises about what should be put in the different sections.

--
Mathias

--
ubuntu-server mailing list
ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 11-21-2007, 10:05 PM
David Portwood
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 15:11 -0500, Mathias Gug wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 01:15:51PM -0600, David Portwood wrote:
> > > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/rubyonrails. The
> > > scpecification is being written in the wiki:
> > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack.
> > Lionel contacted me, just waiting to hear back from him. I am
> > interested in following up with this, I'm not exactly sure where to
> > start on the spec at, is there some template I can follow? I work with
> > RoR daily, in both the deployment side of applications and the
> > development side. This is something I'd love to see in hardy.
>
> I think you've already started a spec on the wiki. Now it just needs to
> be written.
>
> Looking at the wiki page, I would do the following:
> * expand the rationale section to explain what doesn't work now.
> * in the Use case section, describe what should be the user experience
> once the spec is implemented.
> * in the Implementation section, describe which changes should be made
> to the different packages.
> For example, you mentioned editing configuration files. Detail which
> ones, which packages should be changed and how.
I just setup a hardy vm instance, so I'm about to go through the entire
procedure and detail it out for the wiki.

>
> You can refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate to get some
> advises about what should be put in the different sections.
>
> --
> Mathias
>


--
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ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 11-22-2007, 09:32 AM
Lionel Porcheron
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

Hi David, Hi all,

Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 17:05 -0600, David Portwood a crit :
> just setup a hardy vm instance, so I'm about to go through the entire
> procedure and detail it out for the wiki.

David has added informations on the wiki page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack

I have a few remarks and as we are close to the deadline, I would like
the widest feedback.

* I think that the first thing we HAVE to avoid is people using gem (gem
is the internal ruby package manager). David is talking a lot of gem in
this spec, we can not afford people to use gem if we want to offer them
support. That should figure in the rationate IMHO.
* It looks like people are now using a lot Mongrel for rails deployment.
The biggest problem with Mongrel is that a mongrel instance is needed
for each rails application. This means we have to make a lot of
configuration.
* I have looked on several wiki pages for what is written on RoR
applications deployment, looks like fcgid can still do the work (I
personally use fcgid on my rails deploys). Here is the tuto on h.u.c:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RubyOnRails#head-4085777ac71d17a335ae30467137a05e8950883a
* I would not personally take care of postgresql, 99,9% of people who
use RoR use MySQL.

Maybe this is not the best on the performance point of view, but it
could be a workable solution without too much efforts.

One thing we have to be aware, is that RoR is evoluding very fast.
People often want the latest and greatest release. I'm not sure how (and
if) we can handle this in a LTS release (I would personally use the
latest Ubuntu for that purpose, not the LTS). We will face to people who
will want the latest rails version on LTS (even if it breaks old
applications). We already have a similar discussion with Samba on a
previous meeting, but we did not found a consensus.

Mathias, which parts of the specs have to be complete for the spec to be
approved?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Lionel

--
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ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
 
Old 11-22-2007, 01:30 PM
David Portwood
 
Default Server Team 2007-11-20 meeting minutes

On Thu, 2007-11-22 at 11:32 +0100, Lionel Porcheron wrote:
> Hi David, Hi all,
>
> Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 17:05 -0600, David Portwood a crit :
> > just setup a hardy vm instance, so I'm about to go through the entire
> > procedure and detail it out for the wiki.
>
> David has added informations on the wiki page:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RubyOnRailsStack
>
> I have a few remarks and as we are close to the deadline, I would like
> the widest feedback.
>
> * I think that the first thing we HAVE to avoid is people using gem (gem
> is the internal ruby package manager). David is talking a lot of gem in
> this spec, we can not afford people to use gem if we want to offer them
> support. That should figure in the rationate IMHO.
I don't see an issue with going non-gem for mongrel and rails, as long
as Rails is relatively new 1.2.5 or better (which it is in Hardy). We
just need to package a Mongrel Cluster to offer what people actually
need. This brings up the question do we rid ourselves of rubygems all
together and package current offered gems?
http://gems.rubyforge.vm.bytemark.co.uk/gems/ has a list of all current
gems, I didn't bother counting, there are ALOT.
The majority of rails developers have various gems installed on
different rails apps, so maybe packaging gems isn't the right idea as we
really have no way to tell the app the gem is installed as gems
typically install into the rails apps dir.
> * It looks like people are now using a lot Mongrel for rails deployment.
> The biggest problem with Mongrel is that a mongrel instance is needed
> for each rails application. This means we have to make a lot of
> configuration.
Its really just a single file, symlinked from /etc/mongrel/ into the
rails apps config/ dir, thats why I thing we should have a sample app
installed, it gives the user a good POV into the setup of an app.
> * I have looked on several wiki pages for what is written on RoR
> applications deployment, looks like fcgid can still do the work (I
> personally use fcgid on my rails deploys). Here is the tuto on h.u.c:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RubyOnRails#head-4085777ac71d17a335ae30467137a05e8950883a
> * I would not personally take care of postgresql, 99,9% of people who
> use RoR use MySQL.
The majority of the rails community frowns upon fcgid (apache mod_fcgi)
its performance is less than stellar.
>
> Maybe this is not the best on the performance point of view, but it
> could be a workable solution without too much efforts.
>
> One thing we have to be aware, is that RoR is evoluding very fast.
> People often want the latest and greatest release. I'm not sure how (and
> if) we can handle this in a LTS release (I would personally use the
> latest Ubuntu for that purpose, not the LTS). We will face to people who
> will want the latest rails version on LTS (even if it breaks old
> applications). We already have a similar discussion with Samba on a
> previous meeting, but we did not found a consensus.
If people want the latest and greatest they could just use rubygems to
install it, rails apps try to use the system wide installed version,
unless there is a gem version installed, this problem kind of solves
itself here. As far as support for LTS releases, we could just support
the packaged version.
>
> Mathias, which parts of the specs have to be complete for the spec to be
> approved?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lionel
>
> --
> ubuntu-server mailing list
> ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
> More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam


--
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