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Old 06-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Nicolas Valcarcel
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

On Sun, 2008-06-29 at 16:10 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> In my experience upstream Debian packaging ranges from poor to very
> poor.
> Do they provide a source package that we can review?

No they haven't, they have release it on a .deb and there is no evidence
of the code nowhere, really odd.

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Old 06-29-2008, 09:05 PM
Neal McBurnett
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

Thanks, Greg - sounds like good news. I remember your presentation at
the Boston UDS.

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 04:53:36PM -0400, Greg Wallace wrote:
> Yes - The source for 3.2 is also available on SourceForge.

I didn't see any downloads for 3.2 on sourceforge other than the .deb.
A .tgz of just the source would seem helpful, as Scott points out.

A quick grep of the files extracted from the .deb shows about 300
files with the NetDirector Public License, and perhaps 470 with the
GNU General Public License v2. Do you plan to relicense the .jsp
files etc to GPL also?

Cheers,

Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/

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Old 06-29-2008, 09:20 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:53:36 -0400 "Greg Wallace" <gtewallace@gmail.com>
wrote:
Top posting fixed. Please don't.
>
>On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:52:09 -0400 "Greg Wallace" <gtewallace@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >I want to add one more option to the list - www.netdirector.org
>> >
>> >release 3.2 which went on SourceForge last week moves the project to
GPL,
>> >fixes some bugs, adds some features and, importantly for folks here,
>> offers
>> >a deb package for easily installing NetDirector's server manager.
Here's
>> >the release notes for
>> >3.2<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=609239>
>> In my experience upstream Debian packaging ranges from poor to very poor.
>> Do they provide a source package that we can review?
>>
>> How do they manage other package's config files?
>> Scott K
>>
>Yes - The source for 3.2 is also available on SourceForge.
>
>NetDirector manages the following services or packages across the major
>linux distros as well as
>solaris<http://www.netdirector.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemi d=49>
>:
>
> - http
> - DNS
> - DHCP
> - vs-ftp
> - NFS
> - Samba
> - Sendmail
> - Postfix
>
>In addition to these services which you can manage with the base NetDirector
>install, there are also the following plugins that can be installed into a
>live NetDirector deployment. All future service modules will be added as
>plugins.
>
> - Kerberos
> - LDAP
> - RHN Satellite (rls 4)
> - SSH Plugin - allows secure ssh that uses NetDirector's role-based
> permissions so admins can manually configure anything running on a
> NetDirector managed server
>
>I hope that answers the question.
>

No. Neither of them actually.

By source package I mean the debian directory that has the information that
was used to build the .debs they provide.

As an example of the config file question, if I want to add a Postfix
service in /etc/postfix/master.cf to feed mail back into Postfix from
amavisd-new after content filtering, can it support that, how does it
manage to modify the Postfix owned config file, will it break if I've
already made other changes to the file?

Scott K

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Old 06-29-2008, 10:42 PM
"Vince D. Kimball"
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

> Yes - The source for 3.2 is also available on SourceForge.
>

Where? All I see is the .deb file for NetDirector 3.2.



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Old 06-29-2008, 11:22 PM
"Greg Wallace"
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

Hi all,

from the 3.2 release notes on sourceforge: "The deb file contains binary and source files."

I've asked the guys at Epoch to weigh in on Scott's questions about the debian directory and the config file question


Greg

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Vince D. Kimball <vince@vkimball.com> wrote:

> Yes - The source for 3.2 is also available on SourceForge.

>



Where? *All I see is the .deb file for NetDirector 3.2.







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Old 06-29-2008, 11:55 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

On Sunday 29 June 2008 19:22, Greg Wallace wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> from the 3.2 release
> notes<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=609239>on
> sourceforge: "The deb file contains binary and source files."
>
If it's Python, that's probably true, but not extremely useful.

I'm not sure which GPL parts of this is under, but GPL V3 says, "The “source
code” for a work means the preferred form of the work for making
modifications to it. " Buried inside a .deb is not the preferred form of the
work for making modifications to it.

Scott K

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Old 06-30-2008, 12:08 AM
"Greg Wallace"
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

it's GPL v2.

let me assure you that it is our intention to make it easy for people to get involved, examine the code and contribute. so if the current set up doesn't work, we will seek to address whatever deficiency may exist as quickly as possible.


Greg

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:

On Sunday 29 June 2008 19:22, Greg Wallace wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> from the 3.2 release

> notes<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=609239>on

> sourceforge: "The deb file contains binary and source files."

>

If it's Python, that's probably true, but not extremely useful.



I'm not sure which GPL parts of this is under, but GPL V3 says, "The "source

code" for a work means the preferred form of the work for making

modifications to it. " *Buried inside a .deb is not the preferred form of the

work for making modifications to it.



Scott K



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Old 06-30-2008, 02:52 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

On Sunday 29 June 2008 20:08, Greg Wallace wrote:
Fixed top posting again (please, really, don't).
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>

> wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 June 2008 19:22, Greg Wallace wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > from the 3.2 release
> > > notes<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=609239>on
> > > sourceforge: "The deb file contains binary and source files."
> >
> > If it's Python, that's probably true, but not extremely useful.
> >
> > I'm not sure which GPL parts of this is under, but GPL V3 says, "The
> > "source
> > code" for a work means the preferred form of the work for making
> > modifications to it. " Buried inside a .deb is not the preferred form of
> > the
> > work for making modifications to it.
> >
> it's GPL v2.
>
> let me assure you that it is our intention to make it easy for people to
> get involved, examine the code and contribute. so if the current set up
> doesn't work, we will seek to address whatever deficiency may exist as
> quickly as possible.
>
> Greg

Providing a source tarball and the Debian source package used to make
your .deb on the site would be a good start.

Scott K

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Old 06-30-2008, 06:45 AM
Thierry Carrez
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

JAWUD wrote:

> Windows server system is very popular and I think it is because of the GUI it
> has.

I don't think Windows server system is popular because of its GUI (at
least not in the big corp space). It's popular because it is very
integrated.

> There are several options for a GUI. First one is to run X/gnome and make a GUI
> for the server. Remote server management can be done with VNC. This is the
> windows way of server management. Running X/gnome takes a lot of resources and
> VNC is not so fast. So this is not a nice option.

There is a common misconception in the Linux world that the "Windows way
of server management" is to go to log on to the GUI (either at the
console or using the remote desktop). Windows sysadmins use MMC with
lots of snap-ins from their workstation (including the infamous
rightclick > Manage on a computer object in Active Directory "users and
computers" snapin) or VirtualCenter-like admin tools provided by
software vendors to administer their own software across a range of
machines.

It's true logging onto the machine GUI is still needed for a number of
tasks, but that's a bug more than a feature (and there are quite a few
bugs in the way they've been doing it).

> The last option is to make a remote GUI system. Here’s a example: a user
> installs the “Ubuntu Server Console” program on his desktop. It’s a GTK or QT
> app which can be used to connect to a supported ubuntu server via ssh so it can
> be configured. In my opinion this is the best option. It has a nice and rich GUI
> and there is no web server or X/gnome. It’s comparable with Rapache.

It is also comparable to the way Windows admininistration works. Except
that they go through some "everything but the kitchen sink" open ports
to connect high-level GUIs to low-level RPC calls.

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Old 06-30-2008, 12:19 PM
"Greg Wallace"
 
Default Ubuntu server GUI

yup - that's exactly what Scott McKean and I discussed last night - either he or Aidan will update this list when these things are available

Greg

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:

On Sunday 29 June 2008 20:08, Greg Wallace wrote:

Fixed top posting again (please, really, don't).

> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com>



> wrote:

> > On Sunday 29 June 2008 19:22, Greg Wallace wrote:

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > from the 3.2 release

> > > notes<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=609239>on

> > > sourceforge: "The deb file contains binary and source files."

> >

> > If it's Python, that's probably true, but not extremely useful.

> >

> > I'm not sure which GPL parts of this is under, but GPL V3 says, "The

> > "source

> > code" for a work means the preferred form of the work for making

> > modifications to it. " *Buried inside a .deb is not the preferred form of

> > the

> > work for making modifications to it.

> >

> it's GPL v2.

>

> let me assure you that it is our intention to make it easy for people to

> get involved, examine the code and contribute. so if the current set up

> doesn't work, we will seek to address whatever deficiency may exist as

> quickly as possible.

>

> Greg



Providing a source tarball and the Debian source package used to make

your .deb on the site would be a good start.



Scott K



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