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Old 09-27-2008, 02:41 AM
Bluesky
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

Hi,
> The wiki needs work. I'll see if I can spend some time on it, but
> if anyone else wants to flesh out more on wiki.ubuntu.com, that would be
> great.
I am currently working on a page called something like 'Application
Selection' which i will probably end up putting as a link of
help.ubuntu.com/community/ rather than the main site

The idea is to try to 'segment' the potential ubuntu mobile market
into certain categories and document appropriate applications
/customizations /tweaks/test plans for each area. After an IRC chat a
while back the following were mentioned:

Business Application Users
Multimedia Users
Gen Y/Social Networkers
Gamers
Adventure Users
Public Transportation Users

This is obviously not an exact science and I am not experienced in
marketing at all but I would certainly find such a resource useful
when pitching to OEM's for customization work and so on

More ideas/areas are obviously welcome

Ian






--
http://ianlawrence.info

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Old 09-27-2008, 11:27 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

hi,
On Fr, 2008-09-26 at 15:37 +0200, Steve Paine wrote:

>
> I was proposing that I send an SC3 to Oliver (mainly as I know him and
> he's not far from me in Germany) to help out with the SCH/Poulsbo
> testing, not buying up the contents of Dynamism and shipping it to
> him ;-)
i'd love to get one, but please be aware that i moved to kassel 2 years
ago so its not like driving 50km and dropping it off at my door anymore
(unless you like to drive 300km more indeed )

> How many people on the Ubuntu Mobile (distro) team right now though? I
> get the impression that its, er, not many more than Oliver?

even though i built the first image on my own and am mainly responsible
for it, it is still a team effort. i wouldnt be anywhere if emmet
wouldnt care for the installer bits, without steven's work on the build
system (who additionally has a similar position as i do in -mobile wrt
ubuntu-mid), loic as our special force and team lead who puts out the
worst fires or david who does an awesome job as manager to keep all our
backs free (not to talk about the distro and desktop teams from where i
get the apps and who are listening to my change requests ... or even the
launchpad team that makes sure our infrastructure is always reliable).
in ubuntu we usually have one responsible person for a project but most
stuff builds on work of other team members so even though i'm the
responsible guy i'm not the owner of ubuntu-mobile ... its only a
skeleton without a community fleshing it out, without users who give
feedback, file bugs and help with QA ...

so in the end its up to you guys to make it fly i will listen to your
requests and complaints and act accordingly since its not my image but
yours team size isnt defined by headcount inside a company in the
opensource world but by the amount of feedback and participation you get
from the community and its great to see that so many people like it and
that i got so much response already ...

please keep in mind that things like poulsbo and other hardware support
are often dependant on the manufacturer and driver developer, i will
happily test and push for fixes upstream (and indeed send patches where
i can) but nobody in our team can guarantee that it will be fixed in
time for 8.10 (especially Xorg was just undergoing a massive transition
which makes many drivers fall behind, i.e. see my work on the evtouch
touchscreen driver where i'll be happy to have at least the mainstream
stuff supported in 8.04), it might take until 9.04 ... (though having
the HW around surely helps speeding it up)

ciao
oli

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Old 09-27-2008, 03:03 PM
"Tal Beno"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the overall reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.

I understand the enthusiasm that Steve is showing towards this flavor. Heck I share the same feeling, and when first hearing about this second flavor I couldn't resist thinking this was a slam dunk. I find the Ubuntu mobile project as having the right strategic potential, and Oliver's goals to be the right ones (not having to reinvent the wheel and relying on a solid distro).



But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too fractured in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of the crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical can't throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this stage.


I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't intend realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much more resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing your own initial commitment ...



As usual with technology strategy, timing is everything, and I fear that not acting immediately will significantly reduce your chances. on the other hand if you do manage to capture the community's attention at this point, the sky is the limit. Trying not to sound too dreamy, in my humble opinion you might potentially actually do much better with the mobile edition than the desktop one (looking at your current numbers).



Best,
Tal



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Old 09-27-2008, 05:25 PM
"Emmet Hikory"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

Tal Beno wrote:
> I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the overall
> reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.

Although I've been replying to a number of these mails, it's not
that I'm someone particularly special when it comes to Ubuntu Mobile:
I'm just a user who was unsatisfied with both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu
Desktop on my Kohjinsha SR. Oliver credits me with some help with the
installer, but that truly belongs to the many contributors to the
installer technologies used, some originating in Ubuntu, and some in
Debian. I may be an Ubuntu Developer, but that's just because I've
been an Ubuntu user and contributor for long enough that someone
granted me upload rights (I have not checked to see if any of my
patches are in Ubuntu Mobile). Nothing I'm saying represents anything
other than my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a statement of policy
of any sort.

> But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too fractured
> in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of the
> crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical can't
> throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this stage.
> I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't intend
> realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much more
> resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing your
> own initial commitment ...

I take great issue with this assertion. Ubuntu is developed by a
large and diverse community, and that Ubuntu Mobile is developed
entirely within and as part of Ubuntu is surely a good means by which
to ensure that the work done includes the work of the largest number
of interested parties. While is it certainly true that Canonical
offers significant support to Ubuntu, including almost all of the
infrastructure and funding for a number of the developers (I believe
it to be over 10%, including more than a third of the most active
developers, although I could be mistaken), for which much appreciation
is deserved, it is not the case that Ubuntu Mobile is something which
Canonical is "throwing on the community", nor is it the case that
Ubuntu Mobile being community created and community supported
necessarily means that nobody associated with Canonical will be
involved in that community.

While Oliver has created the initial preview image for Ubuntu
Mobile, the idea originates from the UDS held in Prague, has been
discussed in the #ubuntu-mobile channel in freenode for some time, and
relies heavily on the work of the entire Ubuntu community in order to
function as well as it does. The Ubuntu Mobile community is expected
to support this new flavour (as is true for the community surrounding
any Ubuntu flavour), and that community consists of interested people
from many sources, including Canonical. If there are no interested
individuals, then there is no community, and there is no point in
having such a flavour of Ubuntu. I know I'm interested, and judging
from the mail here, the comments to Oliver's blog entry, and the
comments to Steve's article, I'm fairly certain I'm not alone.
There's no reason we can't make Ubuntu Mobile great, but it's not
right to frame this as a competition between corporate entities, or to
try to fit some analyst's model: the key idea is to make something
that we want to use, and to seek out any resources we need to make it
as good as it can be.

--
Emmet HIKORY

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Old 10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
"Steve Paine"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

I think TAL has a good point that there's an opportunity here that could take root if given more support from the back-end. Over the last week we've all seen the active response from users too which is an even better indication that this distro could be worth focusing on by both the community and Canonical.


Its great to hear that Canonical are putting weight behind it then. Thanks for the feedback from Emmet.

As a further encouragement to Canonical and the community I want to say that I am personally getting queries from OEMs and manufacturers about what I think of Linux on netbooks and UMPCs. They are worried about the user experience and (possibly unfounded) reports of higher return rates for Linux-based netbooks. OEMs want a solution and they want a well-recognised solution but if there's a risk of it damaging their brand, they wont take it. It's here that I see Canonical playing the main role. You are obviously talkingn to OEMs directly in the b/g but how about tempting other OEMs and developers via high quality branded blogs and not via IRC (Please, IRC is great but users, OEMs, ISVs, resellers jsut dont have the time to participate. ) or mailing lists. Canonical also need to do marketing. Now. Not when Ubuntu Mobile is launched. Its almost funny that this distro was announced on a personal blog until you realise what potential we're talking about here.


Ubuntu Mobile seems to be taking root. ISVs and community members need reasons to join now. Canonical need to provide the feedback that gives them confidence that this project will go forward with aggression, good end-user focus and with long-term goals to become the de-facto choice on netbooks and medium sized touchscreen devices.


I have a to-do to write another Ubuntu Mobile article soon bul will probably fire a few questions to Canonical PR before I do that. I'll try and tie it in with the first release at end of October with a new video.


I'll also be campaigning for Poulsbo/SCH/GMA500 support for the next release as I know some OEMs that are looking for a solution here. (Some faith in Ubuntu-MID appears to have been lost through the delays with the Gigabyte M528/Compal JAX10 device.)


Good luck to all for Intrepid release.
Steve


On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Emmet Hikory <persia@ubuntu.com> wrote:

Tal Beno wrote:

> I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the overall

> reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.



* *Although I've been replying to a number of these mails, it's not

that I'm someone particularly special when it comes to Ubuntu Mobile:

I'm just a user who was unsatisfied with both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu

Desktop on my Kohjinsha SR. *Oliver credits me with some help with the

installer, but that truly belongs to the many contributors to the

installer technologies used, some originating in Ubuntu, and some in

Debian. *I may be an Ubuntu Developer, but that's just because I've

been an Ubuntu user and contributor for long enough that someone

granted me upload rights (I have not checked to see if any of my

patches are in Ubuntu Mobile). *Nothing I'm saying represents anything

other than my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a statement of policy

of any sort.



> But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too fractured

> in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of the

> crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical can't

> throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this stage.

> I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't intend

> realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much more

> resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing your

> own initial commitment ...



* *I take great issue with this assertion. *Ubuntu is developed by a

large and diverse community, and that Ubuntu Mobile is developed

entirely within and as part of Ubuntu is surely a good means by which

to ensure that the work done includes the work of the largest number

of interested parties. *While is it certainly true that Canonical

offers significant support to Ubuntu, including almost all of the

infrastructure and funding for a number of the developers (I believe

it to be over 10%, including more than a third of the most active

developers, although I could be mistaken), for which much appreciation

is deserved, it is not the case that Ubuntu Mobile is something which

Canonical is "throwing on the community", nor is it the case that

Ubuntu Mobile being community created and community supported

necessarily means that nobody associated with Canonical will be

involved in that community.



* *While Oliver has created the initial preview image for Ubuntu

Mobile, the idea originates from the UDS held in Prague, has been

discussed in the #ubuntu-mobile channel in freenode for some time, and

relies heavily on the work of the entire Ubuntu community in order to

function as well as it does. *The Ubuntu Mobile community is expected

to support this new flavour (as is true for the community surrounding

any Ubuntu flavour), and that community consists of interested people

from many sources, including Canonical. *If there are no interested

individuals, then there is no community, and there is no point in

having such a flavour of Ubuntu. *I know I'm interested, and judging

from the mail here, the comments to Oliver's blog entry, and the

comments to Steve's article, I'm fairly certain I'm not alone.

There's no reason we can't make Ubuntu Mobile great, but it's not

right to frame this as a competition between corporate entities, or to

try to fit some analyst's model: the key idea is to make something

that we want to use, and to seek out any resources we need to make it

as good as it can be.



--

Emmet HIKORY



--

Ubuntu-mobile mailing list

Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com

Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile



--
Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Promoting mobile computing devices *to
over 220,000 people per month through
UMPCPortal.com


--
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:35 AM
"Tero Saarni"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 14:11, Steve Paine <chippy@carrypad.com> wrote:
> (Some faith in Ubuntu-MID appears to have been lost through the delays with the Gigabyte
> M528/Compal JAX10 device.)
>
> Good luck to all for Intrepid release.
> Steve

It is also not helping that this device requires some proprietary
drivers that seems to rule Ubuntu and other open operating systems out
(both Hardy and Intrepid) :-( I'd love to see this fixed!

--
Tero

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:30 PM
"Tal Beno"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

Sorry for rumbling more about it ...

As stated software strategy is an elusive trade. Putting aside enterprise software and focusing on the consumer market, we are facing a unique opportunity here. Microsoft is making a dual strategic mistake in my humble opinion when not pushing XP as "the" mobile (netbook/umpc/mid) OS. It has corrected itself by not eliminating it and reversing the process. But they are also heavily invested in Windows mobile and as a big corporation it is almost impossible for them to maneuver to the right direction.

The mobile OS should no longer be considered as a different entity but a derivative of the desktop OS, with agility and resolution adaptation. The Ubuntu mobile project seems to have all of that. Actually if I were to speculate as stated in my original reply, I would say that Canonical has much more chances with the mobile edition than with the desktop one, concerning market share and the possibility to finally put a Linux flavor as a truly wide distribution for the consumer market.


But my personal opinion is probably different from most open source fans. I don't see any open source project becoming the next big thing without big corporations standing behind it. And I may be stating a strange opinion here, but open source and big corporations should go together. I can see various software companies which could adopt the Ubuntu mobile project for various reasons. Without spending big money on this effort the community will just get frustrated. That said if played right the wonderful community around Ubuntu could definitely make the difference and elevate it to the right places.


To summarize, I can't help thinking that ATM this project is still not on the road for glory. I don't see Canonical aiming high enough nor have the vision or the killer instinct they could show. I would personally take Steve's advice if I were them concerning the forums the advertisement and the OEMs. I would also suggest putting this agenda as the number one priority for the company and revamping the Ubuntu front page with mobile reference.


Best,
Tal Beno


On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Steve Paine <chippy@carrypad.com> wrote:


I think TAL has a good point that there's an opportunity here that could take root if given more support from the back-end. Over the last week we've all seen the active response from users too which is an even better indication that this distro could be worth focusing on by both the community and Canonical.




Its great to hear that Canonical are putting weight behind it then. Thanks for the feedback from Emmet.

As a further encouragement to Canonical and the community I want to say that I am personally getting queries from OEMs and manufacturers about what I think of Linux on netbooks and UMPCs. They are worried about the user experience and (possibly unfounded) reports of higher return rates for Linux-based netbooks. OEMs want a solution and they want a well-recognised solution but if there's a risk of it damaging their brand, they wont take it. It's here that I see Canonical playing the main role. You are obviously talkingn to OEMs directly in the b/g but how about tempting other OEMs and developers via high quality branded blogs and not via IRC (Please, IRC is great but users, OEMs, ISVs, resellers jsut dont have the time to participate. ) or mailing lists. Canonical also need to do marketing. Now. Not when Ubuntu Mobile is launched. Its almost funny that this distro was announced on a personal blog until you realise what potential we're talking about here.




Ubuntu Mobile seems to be taking root. ISVs and community members need reasons to join now. Canonical need to provide the feedback that gives them confidence that this project will go forward with aggression, good end-user focus and with long-term goals to become the de-facto choice on netbooks and medium sized touchscreen devices.




I have a to-do to write another Ubuntu Mobile article soon bul will probably fire a few questions to Canonical PR before I do that. I'll try and tie it in with the first release at end of October with a new video.




I'll also be campaigning for Poulsbo/SCH/GMA500 support for the next release as I know some OEMs that are looking for a solution here. (Some faith in Ubuntu-MID appears to have been lost through the delays with the Gigabyte M528/Compal JAX10 device.)




Good luck to all for Intrepid release.
Steve


On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Emmet Hikory <persia@ubuntu.com> wrote:



Tal Beno wrote:

> I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the overall

> reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.



* *Although I've been replying to a number of these mails, it's not

that I'm someone particularly special when it comes to Ubuntu Mobile:

I'm just a user who was unsatisfied with both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu

Desktop on my Kohjinsha SR. *Oliver credits me with some help with the

installer, but that truly belongs to the many contributors to the

installer technologies used, some originating in Ubuntu, and some in

Debian. *I may be an Ubuntu Developer, but that's just because I've

been an Ubuntu user and contributor for long enough that someone

granted me upload rights (I have not checked to see if any of my

patches are in Ubuntu Mobile). *Nothing I'm saying represents anything

other than my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a statement of policy

of any sort.



> But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too fractured

> in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of the

> crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical can't

> throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this stage.

> I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't intend

> realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much more

> resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing your

> own initial commitment ...



* *I take great issue with this assertion. *Ubuntu is developed by a

large and diverse community, and that Ubuntu Mobile is developed

entirely within and as part of Ubuntu is surely a good means by which

to ensure that the work done includes the work of the largest number

of interested parties. *While is it certainly true that Canonical

offers significant support to Ubuntu, including almost all of the

infrastructure and funding for a number of the developers (I believe

it to be over 10%, including more than a third of the most active

developers, although I could be mistaken), for which much appreciation

is deserved, it is not the case that Ubuntu Mobile is something which

Canonical is "throwing on the community", nor is it the case that

Ubuntu Mobile being community created and community supported

necessarily means that nobody associated with Canonical will be

involved in that community.



* *While Oliver has created the initial preview image for Ubuntu

Mobile, the idea originates from the UDS held in Prague, has been

discussed in the #ubuntu-mobile channel in freenode for some time, and

relies heavily on the work of the entire Ubuntu community in order to

function as well as it does. *The Ubuntu Mobile community is expected

to support this new flavour (as is true for the community surrounding

any Ubuntu flavour), and that community consists of interested people

from many sources, including Canonical. *If there are no interested

individuals, then there is no community, and there is no point in

having such a flavour of Ubuntu. *I know I'm interested, and judging

from the mail here, the comments to Oliver's blog entry, and the

comments to Steve's article, I'm fairly certain I'm not alone.

There's no reason we can't make Ubuntu Mobile great, but it's not

right to frame this as a competition between corporate entities, or to

try to fit some analyst's model: the key idea is to make something

that we want to use, and to seek out any resources we need to make it

as good as it can be.



--

Emmet HIKORY



--

Ubuntu-mobile mailing list

Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com

Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile



--
Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Promoting mobile computing devices *to
over 220,000 people per month through
UMPCPortal.com



--

Ubuntu-mobile mailing list

Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com

Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile




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Old 11-10-2008, 06:59 AM
"Tal Beno"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

I could not resist sending this to you all ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3VyE_ofSwwE&refer=news

Its amazing to hear that MS is actually suffering on the OS business - and just because of the fact that 30% of the Netbooks are sold with Linux.

It just emphasize what I have been trying to say here - which is that on the desktop level Windows is too dominant to defeat at this point. But you have a unique opportunity until next December when Windows7 is supposed to be released to eat more and more market share in the Netbook domain.


I may be hallucinating but Canonical and the community here need to concentrate all of the efforts around a real winning opportunity, which in my opinion is probably the Mobile edition. Instead of spreading the resources thin. I am not sure how soon an opportunity such as this will come our way to make a difference.


Best,
Tal

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Tal Beno <tal.beno@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry for rumbling more about it ...

As stated software strategy is an elusive trade. Putting aside enterprise software and focusing on the consumer market, we are facing a unique opportunity here. Microsoft is making a dual strategic mistake in my humble opinion when not pushing XP as "the" mobile (netbook/umpc/mid) OS. It has corrected itself by not eliminating it and reversing the process. But they are also heavily invested in Windows mobile and as a big corporation it is almost impossible for them to maneuver to the right direction.


The mobile OS should no longer be considered as a different entity but a derivative of the desktop OS, with agility and resolution adaptation. The Ubuntu mobile project seems to have all of that. Actually if I were to speculate as stated in my original reply, I would say that Canonical has much more chances with the mobile edition than with the desktop one, concerning market share and the possibility to finally put a Linux flavor as a truly wide distribution for the consumer market.



But my personal opinion is probably different from most open source fans. I don't see any open source project becoming the next big thing without big corporations standing behind it. And I may be stating a strange opinion here, but open source and big corporations should go together. I can see various software companies which could adopt the Ubuntu mobile project for various reasons. Without spending big money on this effort the community will just get frustrated. That said if played right the wonderful community around Ubuntu could definitely make the difference and elevate it to the right places.



To summarize, I can't help thinking that ATM this project is still not on the road for glory. I don't see Canonical aiming high enough nor have the vision or the killer instinct they could show. I would personally take Steve's advice if I were them concerning the forums the advertisement and the OEMs. I would also suggest putting this agenda as the number one priority for the company and revamping the Ubuntu front page with mobile reference.



Best,
Tal Beno


On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Steve Paine <chippy@carrypad.com> wrote:



I think TAL has a good point that there's an opportunity here that could take root if given more support from the back-end. Over the last week we've all seen the active response from users too which is an even better indication that this distro could be worth focusing on by both the community and Canonical.





Its great to hear that Canonical are putting weight behind it then. Thanks for the feedback from Emmet.

As a further encouragement to Canonical and the community I want to say that I am personally getting queries from OEMs and manufacturers about what I think of Linux on netbooks and UMPCs. They are worried about the user experience and (possibly unfounded) reports of higher return rates for Linux-based netbooks. OEMs want a solution and they want a well-recognised solution but if there's a risk of it damaging their brand, they wont take it. It's here that I see Canonical playing the main role. You are obviously talkingn to OEMs directly in the b/g but how about tempting other OEMs and developers via high quality branded blogs and not via IRC (Please, IRC is great but users, OEMs, ISVs, resellers jsut dont have the time to participate. ) or mailing lists. Canonical also need to do marketing. Now. Not when Ubuntu Mobile is launched. Its almost funny that this distro was announced on a personal blog until you realise what potential we're talking about here.





Ubuntu Mobile seems to be taking root. ISVs and community members need reasons to join now. Canonical need to provide the feedback that gives them confidence that this project will go forward with aggression, good end-user focus and with long-term goals to become the de-facto choice on netbooks and medium sized touchscreen devices.





I have a to-do to write another Ubuntu Mobile article soon bul will probably fire a few questions to Canonical PR before I do that. I'll try and tie it in with the first release at end of October with a new video.





I'll also be campaigning for Poulsbo/SCH/GMA500 support for the next release as I know some OEMs that are looking for a solution here. (Some faith in Ubuntu-MID appears to have been lost through the delays with the Gigabyte M528/Compal JAX10 device.)





Good luck to all for Intrepid release.
Steve


On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Emmet Hikory <persia@ubuntu.com> wrote:




Tal Beno wrote:

> I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the overall

> reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.



* *Although I've been replying to a number of these mails, it's not

that I'm someone particularly special when it comes to Ubuntu Mobile:

I'm just a user who was unsatisfied with both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu

Desktop on my Kohjinsha SR. *Oliver credits me with some help with the

installer, but that truly belongs to the many contributors to the

installer technologies used, some originating in Ubuntu, and some in

Debian. *I may be an Ubuntu Developer, but that's just because I've

been an Ubuntu user and contributor for long enough that someone

granted me upload rights (I have not checked to see if any of my

patches are in Ubuntu Mobile). *Nothing I'm saying represents anything

other than my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a statement of policy

of any sort.



> But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too fractured

> in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of the

> crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical can't

> throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this stage.

> I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't intend

> realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much more

> resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing your

> own initial commitment ...



* *I take great issue with this assertion. *Ubuntu is developed by a

large and diverse community, and that Ubuntu Mobile is developed

entirely within and as part of Ubuntu is surely a good means by which

to ensure that the work done includes the work of the largest number

of interested parties. *While is it certainly true that Canonical

offers significant support to Ubuntu, including almost all of the

infrastructure and funding for a number of the developers (I believe

it to be over 10%, including more than a third of the most active

developers, although I could be mistaken), for which much appreciation

is deserved, it is not the case that Ubuntu Mobile is something which

Canonical is "throwing on the community", nor is it the case that

Ubuntu Mobile being community created and community supported

necessarily means that nobody associated with Canonical will be

involved in that community.



* *While Oliver has created the initial preview image for Ubuntu

Mobile, the idea originates from the UDS held in Prague, has been

discussed in the #ubuntu-mobile channel in freenode for some time, and

relies heavily on the work of the entire Ubuntu community in order to

function as well as it does. *The Ubuntu Mobile community is expected

to support this new flavour (as is true for the community surrounding

any Ubuntu flavour), and that community consists of interested people

from many sources, including Canonical. *If there are no interested

individuals, then there is no community, and there is no point in

having such a flavour of Ubuntu. *I know I'm interested, and judging

from the mail here, the comments to Oliver's blog entry, and the

comments to Steve's article, I'm fairly certain I'm not alone.

There's no reason we can't make Ubuntu Mobile great, but it's not

right to frame this as a competition between corporate entities, or to

try to fit some analyst's model: the key idea is to make something

that we want to use, and to seek out any resources we need to make it

as good as it can be.



--

Emmet HIKORY



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Old 11-10-2008, 07:46 AM
"Steve Paine"
 
Default Supporting Ubuntu Mobile

It certainly looks like Win7 would take back the Netbook market from
Linux with W7 at this stage.
Having tested it at the weekend, its clear that the 1.6Ghz processor,
1GB mem and a reasonably fast disk will be fine and offers a far more
comfortable, productive and enjoyable environment than any Linux
distro i've seen.

I don't see any Linux distribution increasing their share in the
netbook market with WM7 around UNLESS, 1) Microsoft charge full rates
for W7 licenses AND 2) Win XP for ULCPCs goes away. In this case,
Linux could give OEMs the chance to save some up-front licensing
costs.

It leaves the MID market where 4GB flash, 800Mhz processors aren't
good enough for Win7 and MS doesn't have an X86 product to offer
(assuming XP goes away and WM7 does not support X86 architechture.)

Steve

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Tal Beno <tal.beno@gmail.com> wrote:
> I could not resist sending this to you all ...
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3VyE_ofSwwE&refer=news
> Its amazing to hear that MS is actually suffering on the OS business - and
> just because of the fact that 30% of the Netbooks are sold with Linux.
>
> It just emphasize what I have been trying to say here - which is that on the
> desktop level Windows is too dominant to defeat at this point. But you have
> a unique opportunity until next December when Windows7 is supposed to be
> released to eat more and more market share in the Netbook domain.
>
> I may be hallucinating but Canonical and the community here need to
> concentrate all of the efforts around a real winning opportunity, which in
> my opinion is probably the Mobile edition. Instead of spreading the
> resources thin. I am not sure how soon an opportunity such as this will come
> our way to make a difference.
>
> Best,
> Tal
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Tal Beno <tal.beno@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for rumbling more about it ...
>>
>> As stated software strategy is an elusive trade. Putting aside enterprise
>> software and focusing on the consumer market, we are facing a unique
>> opportunity here. Microsoft is making a dual strategic mistake in my humble
>> opinion when not pushing XP as "the" mobile (netbook/umpc/mid) OS. It has
>> corrected itself by not eliminating it and reversing the process. But they
>> are also heavily invested in Windows mobile and as a big corporation it is
>> almost impossible for them to maneuver to the right direction.
>> The mobile OS should no longer be considered as a different entity but a
>> derivative of the desktop OS, with agility and resolution adaptation. The
>> Ubuntu mobile project seems to have all of that. Actually if I were to
>> speculate as stated in my original reply, I would say that Canonical has
>> much more chances with the mobile edition than with the desktop one,
>> concerning market share and the possibility to finally put a Linux flavor as
>> a truly wide distribution for the consumer market.
>>
>> But my personal opinion is probably different from most open source fans.
>> I don't see any open source project becoming the next big thing without big
>> corporations standing behind it. And I may be stating a strange opinion
>> here, but open source and big corporations should go together. I can see
>> various software companies which could adopt the Ubuntu mobile project for
>> various reasons. Without spending big money on this effort the community
>> will just get frustrated. That said if played right the wonderful community
>> around Ubuntu could definitely make the difference and elevate it to the
>> right places.
>>
>> To summarize, I can't help thinking that ATM this project is still not on
>> the road for glory. I don't see Canonical aiming high enough nor have the
>> vision or the killer instinct they could show. I would personally take
>> Steve's advice if I were them concerning the forums the advertisement and
>> the OEMs. I would also suggest putting this agenda as the number one
>> priority for the company and revamping the Ubuntu front page with mobile
>> reference.
>>
>> Best,
>> Tal Beno
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Steve Paine <chippy@carrypad.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think TAL has a good point that there's an opportunity here that could
>>> take root if given more support from the back-end. Over the last week we've
>>> all seen the active response from users too which is an even better
>>> indication that this distro could be worth focusing on by both the community
>>> and Canonical.
>>>
>>> Its great to hear that Canonical are putting weight behind it then.
>>> Thanks for the feedback from Emmet.
>>>
>>> As a further encouragement to Canonical and the community I want to say
>>> that I am personally getting queries from OEMs and manufacturers about what
>>> I think of Linux on netbooks and UMPCs. They are worried about the user
>>> experience and (possibly unfounded) reports of higher return rates for
>>> Linux-based netbooks. OEMs want a solution and they want a well-recognised
>>> solution but if there's a risk of it damaging their brand, they wont take
>>> it. It's here that I see Canonical playing the main role. You are obviously
>>> talkingn to OEMs directly in the b/g but how about tempting other OEMs and
>>> developers via high quality branded blogs and not via IRC (Please, IRC is
>>> great but users, OEMs, ISVs, resellers jsut dont have the time to
>>> participate. ) or mailing lists. Canonical also need to do marketing. Now.
>>> Not when Ubuntu Mobile is launched. Its almost funny that this distro was
>>> announced on a personal blog until you realise what potential we're talking
>>> about here.
>>>
>>> Ubuntu Mobile seems to be taking root. ISVs and community members need
>>> reasons to join now. Canonical need to provide the feedback that gives them
>>> confidence that this project will go forward with aggression, good end-user
>>> focus and with long-term goals to become the de-facto choice on netbooks and
>>> medium sized touchscreen devices.
>>>
>>> I have a to-do to write another Ubuntu Mobile article soon bul will
>>> probably fire a few questions to Canonical PR before I do that. I'll try and
>>> tie it in with the first release at end of October with a new video.
>>>
>>> I'll also be campaigning for Poulsbo/SCH/GMA500 support for the next
>>> release as I know some OEMs that are looking for a solution here. (Some
>>> faith in Ubuntu-MID appears to have been lost through the delays with the
>>> Gigabyte M528/Compal JAX10 device.)
>>>
>>> Good luck to all for Intrepid release.
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Emmet Hikory <persia@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tal Beno wrote:
>>>> > I wish to comment please on Steve's original mail as well as on the
>>>> > overall
>>>> > reply that Steve got from Mr. Emmet Hikory.
>>>>
>>>> Although I've been replying to a number of these mails, it's not
>>>> that I'm someone particularly special when it comes to Ubuntu Mobile:
>>>> I'm just a user who was unsatisfied with both Ubuntu MID and Ubuntu
>>>> Desktop on my Kohjinsha SR. Oliver credits me with some help with the
>>>> installer, but that truly belongs to the many contributors to the
>>>> installer technologies used, some originating in Ubuntu, and some in
>>>> Debian. I may be an Ubuntu Developer, but that's just because I've
>>>> been an Ubuntu user and contributor for long enough that someone
>>>> granted me upload rights (I have not checked to see if any of my
>>>> patches are in Ubuntu Mobile). Nothing I'm saying represents anything
>>>> other than my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a statement of policy
>>>> of any sort.
>>>>
>>>> > But as many analysts are claiming the Linux landscape is way too
>>>> > fractured
>>>> > in general and on the mobile front, so to make this one stand out of
>>>> > the
>>>> > crowd and give MS a real fight (as with the desktop edition) Canonical
>>>> > can't
>>>> > throw it on the community as a prime resource, at least not at this
>>>> > stage.
>>>> > I beg to argue that this is all a big waste of time if you don't
>>>> > intend
>>>> > realizing the huge potential you have in your hands, and invest much
>>>> > more
>>>> > resources on its success. The community will follow only when seeing
>>>> > your
>>>> > own initial commitment ...
>>>>
>>>> I take great issue with this assertion. Ubuntu is developed by a
>>>> large and diverse community, and that Ubuntu Mobile is developed
>>>> entirely within and as part of Ubuntu is surely a good means by which
>>>> to ensure that the work done includes the work of the largest number
>>>> of interested parties. While is it certainly true that Canonical
>>>> offers significant support to Ubuntu, including almost all of the
>>>> infrastructure and funding for a number of the developers (I believe
>>>> it to be over 10%, including more than a third of the most active
>>>> developers, although I could be mistaken), for which much appreciation
>>>> is deserved, it is not the case that Ubuntu Mobile is something which
>>>> Canonical is "throwing on the community", nor is it the case that
>>>> Ubuntu Mobile being community created and community supported
>>>> necessarily means that nobody associated with Canonical will be
>>>> involved in that community.
>>>>
>>>> While Oliver has created the initial preview image for Ubuntu
>>>> Mobile, the idea originates from the UDS held in Prague, has been
>>>> discussed in the #ubuntu-mobile channel in freenode for some time, and
>>>> relies heavily on the work of the entire Ubuntu community in order to
>>>> function as well as it does. The Ubuntu Mobile community is expected
>>>> to support this new flavour (as is true for the community surrounding
>>>> any Ubuntu flavour), and that community consists of interested people
>>>> from many sources, including Canonical. If there are no interested
>>>> individuals, then there is no community, and there is no point in
>>>> having such a flavour of Ubuntu. I know I'm interested, and judging
>>>> from the mail here, the comments to Oliver's blog entry, and the
>>>> comments to Steve's article, I'm fairly certain I'm not alone.
>>>> There's no reason we can't make Ubuntu Mobile great, but it's not
>>>> right to frame this as a competition between corporate entities, or to
>>>> try to fit some analyst's model: the key idea is to make something
>>>> that we want to use, and to seek out any resources we need to make it
>>>> as good as it can be.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Emmet HIKORY
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-mobile mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve 'Chippy' Paine
>>> Promoting mobile computing devices to
>>> over 220,000 people per month through
>>> UMPCPortal.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-mobile mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
>>>
>>
>
>
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>
>



--
Steve 'Chippy' Paine
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UMPCPortal.com

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