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Old 03-15-2011, 10:28 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Could someone assist with applying my simple patch in 518393?

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 05:47:27 pm Benjamin Drung wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 15.03.2011, 17:40 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman:
> > Benjamin Drung <bdrung@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, den 15.03.2011, 20:39 +0000 schrieb Chris
> > Coulson: > The normal process is to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
> > There's really no > need to convert it to a debdiff though,
> > although some sponsors will > request this for some reason.
> > I'm not sure why though, as adding a > changelog entry takes
> > an additional 10 - 20 seconds on top of the time > that the
> > sponsor should be spending on reviewing and testing the change
> >
> > > before they upload. > > This culture of rejecting anything
> >
> > good that doesn't have a debdiff > needs to stop, as it's
> > completely frustrating for contributors. There are two types
> > of contributors: prospective Ubuntu developers and drive-by
> > contributors. For the former it is perfectly ok to request a
> > debdiff. They need to learn the tools. For the latter it is
> > too much overhead. The argument for having a debdiff: In a
> > debdiff you have a real name and an email address. The patch
> > author gets the credits. -- Benjamin Drung Debian & Ubuntu
> > Developer -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list
> > Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe
> > at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
> >
> > That or the sponsor spends another 30 with their editor and gives the
> > patch author credit.
>
> You may have the name of the author, but not always the email address.
> Sometimes you only have a nick name and nothing more.

So you may need to put your own name in debian/changelog as the author of the
upload, but you can still mention them and give credit in the text of the
changelog entry.

If someone is intent on becoming an Ubuntu developer you should definitely
provide them feedback so they learn and improve, but that works just as well
with the post review feedback coming after an upload as after a rejection.

Scott K

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Old 03-15-2011, 11:10 PM
Robert Collins
 
Default Could someone assist with applying my simple patch in 518393?

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 05:47:27 pm Benjamin Drung wrote:
>> PS: The quotation in your response is totally broken (see above). Is
>> this a bug or misconfiguration in your or my email client?
>
> It's a bug in my email client. *That's the third time it's happened in the
> last month. *I've no idea what triggers it to do that now and then.
>
> Sorry for the confusion,

FWIW your mail looked totally fine in gmail, it was Benjamins that had
it all corrupted.

-Rob

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Old 03-17-2011, 09:50 AM
Stefano Rivera
 
Default Could someone assist with applying my simple patch in 518393?

Hi Chris (2011.03.15_22:39:49_+0200)
> This culture of rejecting anything good that doesn't have a debdiff
> needs to stop, as it's completely frustrating for contributors.

However, the sponsorship queue is for sponsoring uploads. I trust the
contributor preparing it to have done the necessary testing and be
pretty sure it's a good idea. And I'll do my best to help walk them
through the necessary changes and patch-forwarding.

Having high-quality, almost-ready uploads keeps the time the sponsor
spends down to reasonable limits.

That's not to say that one doesn't do a reasonable review of the
proposed upload, but on the whole the sponsors queue has higher quality
work, that's more likely to result in an upload.

We have 2000 odd bugs with patches waiting for ubuntu-reviewers, a
number that I can't see us getting down quickly. Should patch pilots be
reviewing those too? Should be be encouraging drive-by contributors to
subscribe sponsors rather than reviewers?


I'm obviously not against anything that sees us fix more bugs in Ubuntu,
and lowering the barrier to initial contribution, if we can handle the
load, and it doesn't slow down contributors without upload rights who
rely on the sponsorship queue too much.

SR

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Stefano Rivera
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H: +27 21 465 6908 C: +27 72 419 8559 UCT: x3127

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Old 03-17-2011, 10:24 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Could someone assist with applying my simple patch in 518393?

Stefano Rivera <stefanor@ubuntu.com> wrote:
Hi Chris (2011.03.15_22:39:49_+0200)
> This culture of rejecting anything good that doesn't have a debdiff
> needs to stop, as it's completely frustrating for contributors.

However, the sponsorship queue is for sponsoring uploads. I trust the contributor preparing it to have done the necessary testing and be pretty sure it's a good idea. And I'll do my best to help walk them through the necessary changes and patch-forwarding.

Having high-quality, almost-ready uploads keeps the time the sponsor spends down to reasonable limits.

That's not to say that one doesn't do a reasonable review of the proposed upload, but on the whole the sponsors queue has higher quality work, that's more likely to result in an upload.

We have 2000 odd bugs with patches waiting for ubuntu-reviewers, a number that I can't see us getting down quickly. Should patch pilots be reviewing those too? Should be be encouraging drive-by contributors to subscribe sponsors rather than reviewers?


I'm obviously not against anything that sees us fix more bugs in Ubuntu, and lowering the barrier to initial contribution, if we can handle the load, and it doesn't slow down contributors without upload rights who rely on the sponsorship queue too much.

SR

--
Stefano Rivera
http://tumbleweed.org.za/
H: +27 21 465 6908 C: +27 72 419 8559 UCT: x3127

--
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It's a balance. What you say is true. On the other hand, rejection, particularly over administrivia, is demotivating. A little extra effort to help the contributor be successful can provide a much more positive experience.



"It needed a little work. I had change a, b, c and here's what you do next time ..." is a much more positive experience than "It needs a, b, c. Resubscribe sponsors when you've fixed it." It accomplishes the same training and it keeps the sponsor's queue short by minimizing repeat trips through the queue.



Scott K

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Old 03-17-2011, 11:24 AM
Stefano Rivera
 
Default Could someone assist with applying my simple patch in 518393?

Hi Scott (2011.03.17_13:24:07_+0200)
> It's a balance. What you say is true. On the other hand, rejection,
> particularly over administrivia, is demotivating. A little extra
> effort to help the contributor be successful can provide a much more
> positive experience.

Yeah, that's something I've discovered as an upstream as well. It's
important to make the first contributions as easy as possible by
providing a helping hand, but try to encourage the contributor to do it
themselves in the future.

When reviewing something from someone I haven't worked with before, I
try to work out how much I should help and how much to review only.
After that, I'll expect more.

SR

--
Stefano Rivera
http://tumbleweed.org.za/
H: +27 21 465 6908 C: +27 72 419 8559 UCT: x3127

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