FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Ubuntu Masters Of The Universe

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 11-24-2007, 11:05 AM
Cesare Tirabassi
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Saturday 24 November 2007 11:37:48 Matt Zimmerman wrote:

> It's a bit too abstract for me to provide much comment, as it's not clear
> how this would change things significantly.

I think you may have missed the link to the full proposal in my post; I'm
repeating it here:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu-mentors/2007-October/000153.html

Please check it out for all the gory details.
In an nutshell, the proposal is meant to:

1) Facilitate the access for people which have not yet contributed mainly
because of the lack of understanding about the basic tools and processes we
have.

2) Structure the process and requisites for contributors that want to become
MOTUs.

3) Cover different types of mentoring. Some mentors or would-be mentors do not
want to deal with complete newbies and are not willing to spend their time
going through the very basics. Other mentors or would-be mentors do not feel
yet ready to help people with more advanced skills and needs and are more
comfortable helping complete newcomers.

> Is the idea to provide separate documentation resources?

No. I think we should keep a unique coherent set of documentation.

> To recruit different groups of people to help with the two stages?

In the current proposal we leave to the would-be mentor the choice of helping
with either or both stages. Let me stress that right now, the availability of
mentors is the only blocking factor for the implementation of this proposal.

> How would the approach differ in practice?

From our side, we simply add the information about the availability of mentors
for each stage and use it to pair them with mentees.
In the proposal we have proposed guidelines to mentors on how to deal with the
two different type of needs.

> Can you describe the proposed changes in more detail?

The above link should provide these details.

I take the occasion to reminder all developers that it is crucial for the
success of this initiative to have your help.

Only 5 persons replied so far, all already mentoring:

3 available for stage 1 only
2 available for stage 2 only

<uncle-sam mode>
WE NEED YOU!
</uncle-sam mode>

Thanks,

Cesare
MOTU Mentoring Reception

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 11-25-2007, 01:05 AM
Brandon Holtsclaw
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

> People might be more inclined to volunteer if there was more visibility into
> the progress this project is making?
>
I 100% agree, just dont have the numbers to make a solution to this.

> How many MOTUs have 'graduated' from it?
>
> How many people have been mentored?
>
cant speak to those numbers either but ...

> Of those, how many are considered by their mentors to be making good progress
> towards becoming a MOTU?

Speaking about my current mentee ( isnt there a better word for this
group ? ) He is well on his way to become a full MOTU and I expect him
to send an application in just after the hardy release if everything
stays on the same course.

--
Brandon Holtsclaw
imbrandon@kubuntu.org
http://www.imbrandon.com
Key fingerprint = EC42 F8A1 48EE 16B9 7637 CE94 22FF 5BC4 8AF5 8F39
gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 8AF58F39
--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 10:39 AM
Cesare Tirabassi
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sunday 25 November 2007 03:05:04 Brandon Holtsclaw wrote:
> > People might be more inclined to volunteer if there was more visibility
> > into the progress this project is making?
>
> I 100% agree, just dont have the numbers to make a solution to this.
>

The file where the reception records the mentoring activities is here:

https://code.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception

Is public and readable by everyone.

Cesare


--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 02:12 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sunday 25 November 2007 06:39, Cesare Tirabassi wrote:
> On Sunday 25 November 2007 03:05:04 Brandon Holtsclaw wrote:
> > > People might be more inclined to volunteer if there was more visibility
> > > into the progress this project is making?
> >
> > I 100% agree, just dont have the numbers to make a solution to this.
>
> The file where the reception records the mentoring activities is here:
>
> https://code.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
>
> Is public and readable by everyone.

That doesn't really answer my questions:

How many MOTUs have 'graduated' from it?

How many people have been mentored?

Of those, how many are considered by their mentors to be making good progress
towards becoming a MOTU?

Scott K

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 04:48 PM
Cesare Tirabassi
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sunday 25 November 2007 16:12:28 Scott Kitterman wrote:

>
> That doesn't really answer my questions:
>

Right now, the purpose of mentoring is not solely that of preparing MOTUs, one
of the very reasons to make the distinction clear in dividing it into two
phases.
If anything, most of mentoring is actually done as a one-on-one tutoring for
totally new contributors; if we were to split the program in two stages right
now, my own estimation is that not many contributors will fall in stage 2.

We have one proposal from Emmet, do we have any other proposals?
Do you think we should restrict mentoring to "stage 1" only?
Do you think we should steer the program to be a pure one-on-one preparatory
program for MOTUship?
Do you think we should dispense from mentoring altogether?

And ultimately, what do you think we should do to increase the number of new
contributors that actively participate and integrate within the Ubuntu
community?

Cesare

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 08:16 PM
Ming Hua
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

I feel you are misunderstanding Scott.

On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 06:48:00PM +0100, Cesare Tirabassi wrote:
> On Sunday 25 November 2007 16:12:28 Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
> > That doesn't really answer my questions:
>
[...]
> We have one proposal from Emmet, do we have any other proposals?
> Do you think we should restrict mentoring to "stage 1" only?
> Do you think we should steer the program to be a pure one-on-one
> preparatory program for MOTUship?

If you can't answer Scott's questions, my response to these questions,
as an MOTU who never participated mentoring, is: Why should I care?

> Do you think we should dispense from mentoring altogether?

Maybe, if after the mentoring program has been running for a few months,
we still don't have a clear idea about what the program has achieved.

Ming
2007.11.25

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 10:59 PM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:48:00 +0100 Cesare Tirabassi <norsetto@ubuntu.com>
wrote:
>On Sunday 25 November 2007 16:12:28 Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
>>
>> That doesn't really answer my questions:
>>
>
>Right now, the purpose of mentoring is not solely that of preparing MOTUs,
one
>of the very reasons to make the distinction clear in dividing it into two
>phases.
>If anything, most of mentoring is actually done as a one-on-one tutoring
for
>totally new contributors; if we were to split the program in two stages
right
>now, my own estimation is that not many contributors will fall in stage 2.

Getting more contributors is good too. I'm trying to understand what value
the program is bringing to Universe. It's very hard for those of us not
involved to tell. So far I've asked for some numbers and haven't gotten
them. I'm starting to wonder if the numbers are dismal enough no one wants
to share them.

>We have one proposal from Emmet, do we have any other proposals?
>Do you think we should restrict mentoring to "stage 1" only?
>Do you think we should steer the program to be a pure one-on-one
preparatory
>program for MOTUship?
>Do you think we should dispense from mentoring altogether?

It's no secret that I haven't liked the idea from the start. I see a
number of negatives to the program:

1. Promotes separation from the community. With dedicated mentoring there
is less incentive to get involved with the community and become a part of
our shared culture. This community is one of the great parts of Universe
specifically and Ubuntu in general.

To deal with this, I've suggested that mentors not upload/advocate their
mentees changes/packages so that mentees are required to make connection
with other MOTUs. This also exposes them to a broader technnical/policy
perspective while they are learning.

2. People who don't have a mentor are discouraged. I am still being asked
if it's OK to learn/participate if one doesn't have a mentor. In this
respect the mere existence of the program discourages people from getting
involved.

3. One on one mentoring means that the same questions have to be answered
time and time again because bystanders can't benefit from private answers.
Additionally, private answers do not benefit from community QA.

Ultimately, there may be sufficient recruiting/training benefit to offset
these disadvantages, which is why I'm asking for some numbers.

Personally, I'd expect that people who need a mentor and can't just ask
questions via IRC or e-mail probably don't have the iniative to be the kind
of productive MOTUs we need.

>And ultimately, what do you think we should do to increase the number of
new
>contributors that actively participate and integrate within the Ubuntu
>community?

I think that I don't know if the mentors program is helping or hurting right now.

I think encouraging people to start with bug fixing instead of new packages would be good.

Scott K

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-25-2007, 11:52 PM
Cesare Tirabassi
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Monday 26 November 2007 00:59:01 Scott Kitterman wrote:

>So far I've asked for some numbers and haven't gotten
> them.

Let me repeat once again, you haven't got any numbers simply because there are
no such numbers. We have kept no record beside those which I pointed out to
you.
What is the point of keeping track of how many motu have graduated being
mentored?
We have never asked to mentors about the progress of their mentee to MOTUship.
We have actually asked mentors if their mentee were ready to continue
autonomously. Why? Simply because, as I told you and you apparently refuse to
understand, mentoring and MOTUship are not linked one to the other.

This wiki page and the underlining links do explain pretty well what the
actual mentoring program is about:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring

If there is a number that I can give you is that the demand on mentoring is
far higher than the availability of mentors.

Cesare


--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-26-2007, 12:56 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sunday 25 November 2007 19:52, Cesare Tirabassi wrote:
> On Monday 26 November 2007 00:59:01 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> >So far I've asked for some numbers and haven't gotten
> > them.
>
> Let me repeat once again, you haven't got any numbers simply because there
> are no such numbers. We have kept no record beside those which I pointed
> out to you.
> What is the point of keeping track of how many motu have graduated being
> mentored?
> We have never asked to mentors about the progress of their mentee to
> MOTUship. We have actually asked mentors if their mentee were ready to
> continue autonomously. Why? Simply because, as I told you and you
> apparently refuse to understand, mentoring and MOTUship are not linked one
> to the other.

OK. Then I guess I don't understand the point.

How many people that were involved in the program as mentees later became
MOTUs? Are there any other than you?

> This wiki page and the underlining links do explain pretty well what the
> actual mentoring program is about:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
>
> If there is a number that I can give you is that the demand on mentoring is
> far higher than the availability of mentors.
>
> Cesare

Scott K

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 
Old 11-26-2007, 04:22 AM
"Emmet Hikory"
 
Default Change in the Mentoring program

On Sunday 25 November 2007 19:52, Cesare Tirabassi wrote:
> Let me repeat once again, you haven't got any numbers simply because there
> are no such numbers. We have kept no record beside those which I pointed
> out to you.

On Nov 26, 2007 10:56 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> How many people that were involved in the program as mentees later became
> MOTUs? Are there any other than you?

As I feel it's important to track metrics, as otherwise it's
really not clear how any process changes affect things, I've reviewed
the available information towards drafting some numbers, with the
following results:

Queue size of pending mentoring requests: unavailable from BZR
People receiving mentoring that have become MOTU: 3
People who have become MOTU since the Mentor program began: 18
(including the 3 above)
Number of current mentors: 17
Number of current mentees: 29
Date mentoring program started: 22 May 2007

Just as a note, in all cases where a Mentoree became MOTU there
were previous uploads to the archive and previous communication with
the community (prior to joining the mentoring program): I do not see
any cases where a completely new person has requested Mentoring and
become a MOTU.

Further, these numbers are from a quick review of the revision
notes in BZR and glancing at the current revision: it may be (and
likely is) that I have made mistakes, and there may be benefit to
someone working through revision by revision to produce more accurate
numbers (including such useful things as "Number of people requesting
mentoring who have dropped from the program").

--
Emmet

--
Ubuntu-motu mailing list
Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:10 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org