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Old 11-02-2009, 05:12 PM
Stefan Lesicnik
 
Default Søren Hansen and Michael Bienia

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@kitterman.com> wrote:
> Personally, I'd be happy if there was a commitment to be more mindful of
> working in public when possible in the future.
>
> I suspect that this release cycle will see the archive reorganization in
> place. *I have seen indications that the MOTU Council is going to be folded
> into the DMB and heard that "MOTU is going away", but really have no idea
> what the plan is. *I would encourage those in leadership positions to lean
> in the direction of over-communicating.
>
> MOTU is something that quite a number of people are proud of and have
> invested in. *I suspect there will be bumps along the road, but with early
> and frequent communication and open decision making a lot of the potential
> bumps can be avoided.
>
> Scott K

+1 to everything Scott has said.

As a contributor i also know of some 'MOTU changes' that are coming
along, but have no information and it would be great to have more
insight. It feels like there have been a few issues of late which
could of been avoided with more open transparent communication.

I understand the the various councils and sabdfl can do as they see
fit (and I really believe we are working to the same common goals),
but as contributors I believe we can contribute, but are unable to do
so if we don't know whats happening. Maybe it seems like the community
(I) are whining over little issues (I have no issue with the extension
of the 3 months) , but its the principle of openness and transparency
i believe Ubuntu is founded on.

I put effort into Ubuntu which i care about, and i'd appreciate
knowing I have some say and direction in something i really care
about, failing this I think we risk alienating and making people
question where they put their free time.

Stefan

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Old 11-02-2009, 05:44 PM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Søren Hansen and Michael Bienia

On 02/11/2009, at 17.23, Benj. Mako Hill wrote:

> <quote who="Stefan Potyra" date="Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 12:43:22PM
> +0100">
>>> Let's not bog ourselves down in procedural pedantry. If the CC
>>> need to,
>>> we can make direct appointments and replacements on any structure in
>>> Ubuntu, and will do so.
>>
>> Thanks, Mark, that's at least a clear announcement, helping me better
>> understand how the Ubuntu government works in reality, and to what
>> degree
>> government bodies value the community.
>
> Everyone involved values the community. If you doubt that, we have
> very
> serious problems.

Unfortunately, a few minutes after posting the above statement, Stefan
sent an email to u-m saying he's no longer sure if he wants to be
involved with Ubuntu Development. I'm not sure if these things are
connected, but given the timestamps it's certainly possible.

When you're at the top of the pyramid, it's easy to view discussions
and information as "procedural pedantry". When you're at the _bottom_
of the pyramid, working your behind off for the common good of the
project, it is equally easy to become demotivated if you start feeling
you're taken for granted and that relevant information doesn't come
your way.

It's in everybodys good interest to maintain a high level of
information and discussion, and since everybody has stated that they
have no problem with the actual outcome of the decision, that should
pose no problem. What is relevant is that everybodys desire to be "in
the loop" is satisfied.

Cheers,
Morten

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Old 11-02-2009, 06:00 PM
"Siegfried-A. Gevatter"
 
Default Søren Hansen and Michael Bienia

While I don't disagree with the term extension, I would have expected
the MOTU Council to approach the developer community in this matter
and the final decision being taken through a poll (ie. something like
"Do you agree with extending Soren and Michael's term?").

In this case, given that the actual decision isn't really such a big
deal, I believe even just sending a message like Benjamin's is enough,
but it should have had an ending like "If you disagree with this
decision please expose your reasons within [reasonable amount of
time]", which would have made a lot of difference.

Just my 5¢.

--
Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT)
Free Software Developer 363DEAE3

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Old 11-02-2009, 06:47 PM
"Benj. Mako Hill"
 
Default Søren Hansen and Michael Bienia

<quote who="Morten Kjeldgaard" date="Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 07:44:40PM +0100">
> >Everyone involved values the community. If you doubt that, we have
> >very serious problems.
>
> Unfortunately, a few minutes after posting the above statement, Stefan
> sent an email to u-m saying he's no longer sure if he wants to be
> involved with Ubuntu Development. I'm not sure if these things are
> connected, but given the timestamps it's certainly possible.

Obviously, that certainly wasn't the point. I value Stefan's
contribution deeply and I know others do to.

And I believe everyone reading this message values the community deeply.
If they didn't, they wouldn't have committed as much time and energy to
these issues and to these conversation as they have. I think this this
level of recognition, and the trust it builds, is an important type of
faith we should hold in each other.

> It's in everybodys good interest to maintain a high level of
> information and discussion, and since everybody has stated that they
> have no problem with the actual outcome of the decision, that should
> pose no problem. What is relevant is that everybodys desire to be "in
> the loop" is satisfied.

I agree completely. And I've said so repeatedly. I think everyone
involved does. We've stated our commitment to transparency in the Code
of Conduct. Mistakes were and things were communicated either as well
or much as would be ideal. Let's learn from this and move on.

Regards,
Mako

--
Benjamin Mako Hill
mako@atdot.cc
http://mako.cc/

Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far
as society is free to use the results. --GNU Manifesto
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