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Old 11-19-2008, 04:53 PM
Jo Shields
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 11:22 -0600, Luke L wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Jo Shields <directhex@apebox.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The "monodevelop" package in Ubuntu has been stuck on the same version
> > for an eternity, and users are (rightly) annoyed at its bugs & lack of
> > features. However, we have long been cautioned by upstream not to use
> > any SVN snapshots or alpha tarballs in a stable release, as they would
> > become impossible to support very quickly.
> >
> > The next major stable release, however, is due "relatively" soon -
> > probably around February or March, but possibly later. An alpha release
> > which essentially feature-freezes the app until final is due to be
> > released within a week.
> >
> > I think we're more than due for a nice new version, but I'm extremely
> > uncomfortable about the idea of adding an unstable snapshot now (in
> > order to make sure the packaging work is current & valid) if I can't get
> > the final release of the app into the same release.
> >
> > So, can I get some level of assurance that a 2.0 pre-final package in
> > Jaunty could definitely be updated to final, even at a late stage in the
> > release? Even if, Hardy-FF3-style, it slips past the final deadline and
> > needs to appear in jaunty-updates?
> >
> > If not, then I feel the best plan is to leave the current (1.0) version
> > of the package in place.
> >
> > --Jo Shields
> >
> > (not on-list, so please CC)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-motu mailing list
> > Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
> >
>
> Isn't monodevelop on the current version in Inrtepid (1.0)?

Yes. The same "stable" package as Hardy. And the same one as currently
found in Jaunty. It's a bit... well, unstable.

> Mono itself, and the C# compiler, are up-to-date, with CLI 2.0 and C# 3.0.

Well, not really. But that's another topic (which would need to go to
-devel, given Mono is in Main). Mono 2.2 is due by the end of the year,
2.0.1 is current. 2.0 is stuck in Debian NEW, targeting Experimental.
Mono 2.0 was released ages ago (2.0 was out in October, so as you can
imagine, I saw a lot of complaints that it wasn't in Intrepid, much like
OOo3)

Mono's release schedule is unfortunately a little out of sync with us,
so it's hard to get the "latest" version (though I'm working with
upstream and with the rest of Debian pkg-mono to do what we can).
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:41 PM
Nicolas Valcárcel
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 11:22 -0600, Luke L wrote:
>
> Mono itself, and the C# compiler, are up-to-date, with CLI 2.0 and C#
> 3.0.
This worries me a lot, if the whole mono suit is updated (compilers,
libraries, etc...) it will break a lot of other tools and recompiling
almost the entire archive will be needed. Also i'm assuming this is
true, i'm not a mono expert so if this doesn't apply just let me know
and ignore my comment.

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Old 11-19-2008, 06:48 PM
Jo Shields
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 13:41 -0500, Nicolas Valcárcel wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 11:22 -0600, Luke L wrote:
> >
> > Mono itself, and the C# compiler, are up-to-date, with CLI 2.0 and C#
> > 3.0.
> This worries me a lot, if the whole mono suit is updated (compilers,
> libraries, etc...) it will break a lot of other tools and recompiling
> almost the entire archive will be needed. Also i'm assuming this is
> true, i'm not a mono expert so if this doesn't apply just let me know
> and ignore my comment.

You're more right than you realise - the new Mono stack brings with it
some major transitions within pkg-mono - the upshot of which will be a
10-20 MiB saving on the Jaunty liveCD. See
http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition for
details, incl details on packaging alterations required for the new
structure.

About a hundred source packages will need to be altered. We're going to
take care of it as best as we can within pkg-mono, into Experimental.
Assuming NEW takes less than a hundred years, which isn't always
guaranteed
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:42 AM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

On 19/11/2008, at 17.18, Jo Shields wrote:

> If not, then I feel the best plan is to leave the current (1.0)
> version
> of the package in place.

Mono is evil software and is a mere trojan carrying a patent bomb from
Microsoft waiting to explode. Imagine a situation where hundreds of
essential packages based on Mono exists in Ubuntu, Office apps,
Internet apps, etc. and Microsoft decides to pull their often
advertised patent stunt. End of Ubuntu.

The harm has already been done by letting monodevelop into the
distribution. Although I would advocate a removal, the next-best thing
is to leave monodevelop at version 1.0

Sorry Jo...

Cheers,
Morten


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Old 11-20-2008, 11:26 AM
Sarah Hobbs
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

Morten Kjeldgaard wrote:
> Mono is evil software and is a mere trojan carrying a patent bomb from
> Microsoft waiting to explode. Imagine a situation where hundreds of
> essential packages based on Mono exists in Ubuntu, Office apps,
> Internet apps, etc. and Microsoft decides to pull their often
> advertised patent stunt. End of Ubuntu.
>
> The harm has already been done by letting monodevelop into the
> distribution. Although I would advocate a removal, the next-best thing
> is to leave monodevelop at version 1.0
>
> Sorry Jo...
>
> Cheers,
> Morten
>
>

Morten, this is a packaging list. This is a list for getting stuff
done. This is not a list for possible lies, propaganda, and flame wars.
End of story.

Therefore, do you think you could leave your theories about mono at the
door? I'd also remind you of the stuff about mailing lists listed here.
[1].

Thanks,

Hobbsee

1. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

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Old 11-20-2008, 12:36 PM
Morten Kjeldgaard
 
Default Jaunty pre-freeze Freeze Exception Request: monodevelop

On 20/11/2008, at 13.26, Sarah Hobbs wrote:

>> The harm has already been done by letting monodevelop into the
>> distribution. Although I would advocate a removal, the next-best
>> thing
>> is to leave monodevelop at version 1.0
>>

> Morten, this is a packaging list. This is a list for getting stuff
> done.

Exactly. I am proposing not to do anything.

Cheers,
Morten


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