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Reinhard Tartler 08-01-2008 07:28 AM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Hello from the lp liaison,

(you are receiving this mail because you are either a member of the
motu-sru or motu-release team. A copy is also sent to
ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com)

I had an very interesting telephone conference yesterday with the
launchpad guys. They are currently considering what features launchpad
3.0 will have. They did send me a list of things they have on the
schedule and ask (among others) us MOTUs to help prioritising the list
below.

In the telefone conference kiko briefly explained each of the points
below. Because of the very massive list, I did a preselection of 16 specs
I consider more important than the list below. This is just a arbitrary
selection of things I consider important, but I'm explicitly asking you
to correct me if you think I'm wrong!

Please have a look at both lists, and try to understand at each of them
what they are about. Please do not hesitate to ask either me in private,
on phone or in #launchpad if you need clarification what a particular
spec is about. Then, please prioritise the 15 (!) most important items
on the list below and send that to me, preferably in private email. Use
'1' for the most important spec and '15' you care least. Use '-' to mark
specs you don't care about at all. Keep in mind that you have exactly 15
votes! I will then compile all submissions and forward that then to
kiko.

Please keep in mind that kiko asked us to give the prioritisation in the
next days, so please let's not go into lengthy discussion about
implementation details unless really really necessary.

Thanks for your help!



|| M || Feature || Comments ||

== features that I consider more important ==

|| || /TagDiscipline || Actually using OfficialBugTags for something! ||
|| || /CompleteActivityLog || Ensuring bug activity captures all bug changes ||
|| || [wiki:Self:/ActivityLogInterleaving Bug Activity UI Interleaving] || Displaying activity in the comments view ||
|| || MaloneMeToo || Being able to say and record "this bug affects me to" ||
|| || /FixingIrrelevantComments || Marking and hiding irrelevant comments. See [https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/220535 bug 220535]. ||
|| || Expired bugs || Allowing us to track expired bugs separately from invalid, including a textual rationale ||
|| || No more Confirmed || With Me Toos and Triaged, removed this confusing status ||
|| || Import a remote bug UI || One-push importing and task-annotation from Debbugs & Bugzilla ||
|| || /CaptureDistroSeriesWhenFilingBugs || UI to allow the user to say "I don't know/Hardy/Intrepid/..." ||
|| || Qualifying bug reporters || Redirect non-qualified people to answers; based on Karma, Ubuntu Members, Referees, etc. ||
|| || Package-specific reporting guidelines || Bonus points for a syntax for including screenshots ||
|| || Proactive bug imports || Enabling complete syncs from plugin-enabled sites ||
|| || Code review UI || Allow code review of patch attachments, feature-parity with Bugzilla ||
|| || [wiki:Self:/ExplicitSearchFilteringAndCleanURLs /ExplicitSearchFilteringAndCleanURLs] || Let users see and understand what search filters are on, and clean up default search URLs, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/28697 ||
|| || Crash reporting || Provide a repository of crashes linked to bug reports, possibly integration with Breakpad? ||
|| || Negated Tags in Searches || Allow searching for bugs with some tags, but without others ||
|| || Version-tracking of bugs || Being able to specify that a bug is present or was introduced in version X, and later fixed in version Y (*) ||


(*) note that this will take a lot of time to implement, and that would
probably block many developer resources from other important specs!

== features that I currently consider less important ==

|| || Workload estimation || Story points/hours ||
|| || Importing from tarballs || Making it easier for people to import project bugs into Launchpad for bug tracking ||
|| || [https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/174443 Project group dupefinder support] || ||
|| || /BugFreezing || Marking a bug as frozen, disallowing new comments from non-bug-team-members ||
|| || Flip Incomplete to New || Automatically flip bugs from Incomplete when information is provided. ||
|| || Timebomb New bugs || After 6/N months, all New bugs become Incomplete ||
|| || /IgnoreSubscriptionsRevenge || Unsubscribing implicit subscribers from specific bugs ||
|| || Email first-time bug-reporters || A welcome message and guide to triaging process ||
|| || /CollectingBugStatistics || Pre-requisite for the triage report and useful to external report builders ||
|| || Triage throughput report || See [https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/qastats-bug-triage Triaging QoS Report] ||
|| || UI for submitting bugs upstream I || Offering convenience links for sites not running our plugins ||
|| || UI for submitting bugs upstream II || Using our Trac and Bugzilla plugins ||
|| || Better package name UI guidance || If the user selects "don't know" then lead him to an explanation ||
|| || /BetterPrivacyWorkflow || Allow special users to submit private bugs, and make it clear what consequences result of marking a public bug private ||
|| || Specific status change UI || Guide people to our intended workflow; allow people to add a comment and click a button to do a certain status transition ||
|| || Duplicate-detection inside launchpad || Scavenge Launchpad bugs with similar contents to the bug displayed and easily mark dupes ||
|| || Duplicate-detection across bugtrackers || Scavenge upstream and downstream bugtrackers for possible duplicates of bug report; on-demand and as a second step to bug reporting ||
|| || Bugtask forwarding relationships || Being able to say "This bug is in Ubuntu" or "This bugtask needs an upstream task" or "This bugtask is waiting for an uptream task" ||
|| || Duplicate bug watch workflow || When a bugwatch is linked to multiple bugs, notify/warn users (how? when?) ||
|| || Quick summary/description/tags editing || Allowing people to change these fields without two pageloads ||
|| || Status/Milestone updates for milestoned bugs || Simple UI to update selected bugs ||
|| || Fix issues with bug nominations discussed at UDS || [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253597 Bug 253597], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253600 bug 253600], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253608 bug 253608], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253612 bug 253612], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195 bug 110195], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253610 bug 253610] ||
|| || Link HWDB submissions to bug reports || This would be a first step, just linking a submission to a bug report. The developers would still have to download the data and look at it offline. ||
|| || Link hardware component to a bug report || This would allow us to be more specific at saying which hardware is affected. This feature inludes storing the submissions in a structured way, allowing submissions to be searched by hardware component. ||
|| || Make HWDB submissions searchable by kernel version || Extract the kernel version used when the HWDB submission, displaying it, and allow searches to be filtered by it ||


== Still need sorting and clarifying from the launchpad devs ==

|| || Answer tracker localization || ||
|| || Mass Bug Editing || [https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+spec/mass-bug-editing 1] [https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+spec/mass-bug-editing-phase-2 2] [https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+spec/mass-bug-editing-phase-3 3] [https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/41702 bug 41702 ] ||
|| || Deleting bug tasks || admin feature to fix actual mistakes and avoid DBA intervention ||


Thank you for you collaboration!

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Cesare Tirabassi 08-01-2008 10:04 AM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:

The most important from me is not on the list, and that would be to have the
source package information back on the bug page (as it was before).
Its pretty annoying having to change to other pages just to see if that
package is in universe or not, what is the current version and who uploaded
it last.

For this:

> || || bug imports || Enabling complete syncs from plugin-enabled sites ||

If that means the ability for MOTU to manually sync, than this is a 15,
otherwise what the heck is this?

All the others I don't really care about; they are mostly annoying things lost
in a sea of annoying things (which to me is a clear sign that they have no
clue about what is really important in a distro bug tracker from a developer
pov).

> Thank you for you collaboration!

My pleasure,

Cesare

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Reinhard Tartler 08-01-2008 10:50 AM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Cesare Tirabassi <norsetto@ubuntu.com> writes:

> On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:
>
> The most important from me is not on the list, and that would be to have the
> source package information back on the bug page (as it was before).
> Its pretty annoying having to change to other pages just to see if that
> package is in universe or not, what is the current version and who uploaded
> it last.

This sounds rather like a bug than a spec to me. Is there already a
bugnumber for it? If not, can you please file a bug and tell me the number?

> For this:
>
>> || || bug imports || Enabling complete syncs from plugin-enabled sites ||
>
> If that means the ability for MOTU to manually sync, than this is a 15,
> otherwise what the heck is this?

As far as I understand it, you can say "here is a bug in debbugs, it
also affects ubuntu, please import all comments, status, etc from
debbugs to launchpad and auto create a 'forwarded bugtask'."

> All the others I don't really care about; they are mostly annoying things lost
> in a sea of annoying things (which to me is a clear sign that they have no
> clue about what is really important in a distro bug tracker from a developer
> pov).

They also admit that they don't have a clue what we as developers really
need. That's why they are offering us means to prioritze the work, and I
think we should take that offer.

The best we can do is to document (using bug numbers) and group (using
tags) the annoying things. This is work, obviously, but I don't see
another way how to get further on this issue.

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Cesare Tirabassi 08-01-2008 11:46 AM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
On Friday 01 August 2008 12:50:29 you wrote:
> Cesare Tirabassi <norsetto@ubuntu.com> writes:

> This sounds rather like a bug than a spec to me. Is there already a
> bugnumber for it? If not, can you please file a bug and tell me the number?

I have no idea if there is a bug already filed for this. Manually scanning
1200+ bugs is not an option and, as you know, searching for bugs containing
keywords (I tried source with/without info and couldn't get anywhere) never
works for me (usually, I can find more relevant LP bugs via google than via
LP itself).
Assuming there isn't, I will file one and let you have the bug number.
Note that wgrant pointed out to me that there are now tooltips to give some of
this information (thanks wgrant), but in my opinion this is just a
palliative. When I actually need to use this info what should I do, write it
down on a piece of paper? And the tooltip disappear anyway after few seconds.

> As far as I understand it, you can say "here is a bug in debbugs, it
> also affects ubuntu, please import all comments, status, etc from
> debbugs to launchpad and auto create a 'forwarded bugtask'."

OK, don't, please don't. The way I understand it this is likely to create more
confusion than solve any real issue.

> The best we can do is to document (using bug numbers) and group (using
> tags) the annoying things. This is work, obviously, but I don't see
> another way how to get further on this issue.

From my own experience, raising bugs in LP about LP is as much effective as
trying to empty the ocean with a (leaking) bucket.
IMHO adding the homepage in the source package info would be a big help
(assuming we can get that back to the bug page). When I need to check
upstream (maybe its an update, maybe to see if a bug has been filed already
there or fixed in their VCS) the only solution that I know of to do it
through LP is to gunzip the diff.gz. Again, I could not find if such a
request was filed already and knowing that the effect of raising such bugs
tends to zero I was never motivated to do it myself (beside, I just use
apt-cache).
Now you tell me we should do it, fine, I will, and let me see how far we go
with these.

Cesare

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Scott Kitterman 08-01-2008 12:15 PM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
On Friday 01 August 2008 06:04, Cesare Tirabassi wrote:
> On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:
>
> The most important from me is not on the list...
>
> All the others I don't really care about; they are mostly annoying things
> lost in a sea of annoying things (which to me is a clear sign that they
> have no clue about what is really important in a distro bug tracker from a
> developer pov).

I find myself in a similar position. I will have to think on this. My
initial reach reaction for much of that list ranges from "Who cares"
to "Please, $DEITY, no".

First on my list would be page load times fast enough that I don't feel it's
better to take the trouble to manually type in a URL than click to the page
if the page is more than one click away through their U/I.

I'll have to think on this.

Scott K

P.S. For those that don't know, there's an html comment embedded at the end
of every Launchpad page that lists how many (known) database queries the page
needed and how long the database part of the process took. Grabbing the
first bug page I could find that I had open already it said:

<!-- at least 192 queries issued in 3.49 seconds -->


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Sarah Hobbs 08-01-2008 03:07 PM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Cesare Tirabassi wrote:

On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:

The most important from me is not on the list, and that would be to have the
source package information back on the bug page (as it was before).
Its pretty annoying having to change to other pages just to see if that
package is in universe or not, what is the current version and who uploaded
it last.


Various of us have expressed severe objections to this.

However, it is still on a tooltip - mouse over the name of the package
on the bug. Not very discoverable - I only found out, as mpt told me
about it.


Hobbsee

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"Marcelo Boveto Shima" 08-01-2008 11:48 PM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Hi,

I'm not a motu but I want to give my opinion on this. I tried several times the revu
process but without success. This was because the review took so long (a month)
that I always give up. I've uploaded azureus, synce (others related), omnibook

(driver for my notebook), and the last were virt-manager and libvirt (both adopted by
a debian maintainer, with corrections of corse)

I know the Motu team doesn't have enought man power. So revu process should

became easier by integrating it into launchpad. Launchpad already has PPA (builds the
package with lintian checks, creates necessary debdiff and can have tests if the
package works for users) so an option "Propose for Ubuntu" that puts the package

with all necessary information into a queue for review. This would be a killer feature for
merges and little corrections. Would be nice to have approved count exclusive to motu
on this queue.

Regards,
Marcelo


On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Sarah Hobbs <hobbsee@ubuntu.com> wrote:

Cesare Tirabassi wrote:


On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:



The most important from me is not on the list, and that would be to have the source package information back on the bug page (as it was before).

Its pretty annoying having to change to other pages just to see if that package is in universe or not, what is the current version and who uploaded it last.




Various of us have expressed severe objections to this.



However, it is still on a tooltip - mouse over the name of the package on the bug. *Not very discoverable - I only found out, as mpt told me about it.



Hobbsee




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"Michael Casadevall" 08-02-2008 04:41 AM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Recent work on REVU already exists into linking it against the PPA (it's almost at a working prototype stage, but I'm suffering a case of coders block). We're already done work to link REVU, and Launchpad's logins, as well as somewhat streamline the entire process.

Michael

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Marcelo Boveto Shima <marceloshima@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm not a motu but I want to give my opinion on this. I tried several times the revu
process but without success. This was because the review took so long (a month)
that I always give up. I've uploaded azureus, synce (others related), omnibook


(driver for my notebook), and the last were virt-manager and libvirt (both adopted by
a debian maintainer, with corrections of corse)

I know the Motu team doesn't have enought man power. So revu process should


became easier by integrating it into launchpad. Launchpad already has PPA (builds the
package with lintian checks, creates necessary debdiff and can have tests if the
package works for users) so an option "Propose for Ubuntu" that puts the package


with all necessary information into a queue for review. This would be a killer feature for
merges and little corrections. Would be nice to have approved count exclusive to motu
on this queue.

Regards,
Marcelo



On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Sarah Hobbs <hobbsee@ubuntu.com> wrote:


Cesare Tirabassi wrote:


On Friday 01 August 2008 09:28:49 you wrote:



The most important from me is not on the list, and that would be to have the source package information back on the bug page (as it was before).

Its pretty annoying having to change to other pages just to see if that package is in universe or not, what is the current version and who uploaded it last.




Various of us have expressed severe objections to this.



However, it is still on a tooltip - mouse over the name of the package on the bug. *Not very discoverable - I only found out, as mpt told me about it.



Hobbsee




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Reinhard Tartler 08-06-2008 03:15 PM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Hello kiko, hello fellow MOTUs


I did receive some answers, thanks to everyone who has contributed so
far, all your comments will get considered and used to compile a big
picture!

However, I'm sorry to say that I didn't manage to compile prioritised
list that the launchpad crew asked us to do, yet. I don't have the
feeling that we enough answers to form a representative opinion on what
specs the launchpad crew should work on next, so I'd suggest that we
leave people a bit more time to discuss the list I've sent around.

Moreover, I'll be away from net for vacation starting on tomorrow. I've
therefore asked Stefan Potyra to complete the task and forwarded him all
emails that you have sent me so far, I hope this is OK for
everyone. Please send further lists and comments to him.

My current impression is that the list of specs is too long. The answers
I received so far show a very mixed picture. There were quite some
fearful comments about some specs (like the "Sorry, you aren't
experienced enough to be allowed to report a bug"-spec), where I think
that there is mainly misunderstanding involved. We could of course try
to educate people more about the meaning of the various specs, but since
the launchpad guys need the list rather quickly, I'm not sure if it is
worth doing that.

Having said this, I have a urgent plea: If you implement a spec, please,
pretty please think about who is going to be affected by a change, and
talk to them before starting to change launchpad. Any change that has
the potential to have an effect on workflows we already agreed on is
very likely to cause confusion and anti-sentiments. This already has
happened in the past, unfortunately. And the answers I received so far
support these observations.

As a short mid-term summary, I've identified the following points as
pretty important so far:

* Fixing bug nominations-related specs
* Activity log-related specs
* Performance (currently lp takes about 3(!) secs for a bug page)
* Unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions

The list is rather short, I agree. I do hope that this email will be
received as a 2nd call for help. Ideally our teams that are heavy users
of launchpad bugs can discuss themselves what things of the list they
would like to see implemented rather sooner than later.

Thanks for reading this and your contributions so far. Now, I'm handing
over to Stefan, who has thankfully agreed to take over until I
return.

See you all soon!

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Reinhard Tartler 08-22-2008 12:41 PM

Proposed Features for Launchpad Bugs 3.0 - call for help!
 
Hello Kiko, hi fellow MOTUs,

This has taken significantly longer than I had expected, but find below
the prioritized select of the list the Launchpad developers gave me. I
tried to incorporate all comments from all submissions I got. Please
don't be too surprised to hear that I got rather few
submissions. Moreover, since I didn't apply a proper voting system, and
most of the submissions rather expressed their opinion on the points, I
had to decide on my own on the exact prioritisation. This wasn't an easy
task at all, and I really had sleep one or two night over some
comments, but anyway, here we go (first is the most important one):


- Fix issues with bug nominations discussed at UDS || [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253597 Bug 253597], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253600 bug 253600], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253608 bug 253608], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253612 bug 253612], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195 bug 110195], [https://launchpad.net/bugs/253610 bug 253610] ||
- /CompleteActivityLog || Ensuring bug activity captures all bug changes ||
- [wiki:Self:/ActivityLogInterleaving Bug Activity UI Interleaving] || Displaying activity in the comments view ||
- /TagDiscipline || Actually using OfficialBugTags for something! ||
- /IgnoreSubscriptionsRevenge || Unsubscribing implicit subscribers from specific bugs ||
- Flip Incomplete to New || Automatically flip bugs from Incomplete when information is provided. ||
- /CaptureDistroSeriesWhenFilingBugs || UI to allow the user to say "I don't know/Hardy/Intrepid/..." ||
- Email first-time bug-reporters || A welcome message and guide to triaging process ||
- MaloneMeToo || Being able to say and record "this bug affects me to" ||
- /FixingIrrelevantComments || Marking and hiding irrelevant comments. See bug 220535. ||
- Package-specific reporting guidelines || Bonus points for a syntax for including screenshots ||
- Negated Tags in Searches || Allow searching for bugs with some tags, but without others ||
- Specific status change UI || Guide people to our intended workflow; allow people to add a comment and click a button to do a certain status transition ||
- Proactive bug imports || Enabling complete syncs from plugin-enabled sites ||
- Import a remote bug UI || One-push importing and task-annotation from Debbugs & Bugzilla ||


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