hi,
Am Dienstag, den 17.07.2012, 22:28 +0800 schrieb Daniel J Blueman:
> IMHO, the installation and updating of linux-headers-generic and (eg)
> linux-headers-3.2.0-26, linux-headers-3.2.0-26-generic is unneeded for
> Ubuntu desktop users by large; I always remove these on
> non-development setups.
>
> Provided the dependencies are correct, it'll be pulled in by eg dkms,
> libc-dev etc when expected.
>
> So, what is the current justification for installing these packages per default?

special HW i.e. exotic unpacked network card drivers ... without the
minimal build env we ship you would be pretty screwed getting these to
build and without network installing the headers and friends is painful.

please lets keep it as is so people can still build third party drivers
from upstream sources and benefit from the flexibility of linux if
needed ...

ciao
oli


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On 17 July 2012 22:48, Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> hi,
> Am Dienstag, den 17.07.2012, 22:28 +0800 schrieb Daniel J Blueman:
>> IMHO, the installation and updating of linux-headers-generic and (eg)
>> linux-headers-3.2.0-26, linux-headers-3.2.0-26-generic is unneeded for
>> Ubuntu desktop users by large; I always remove these on
>> non-development setups.
>>
>> Provided the dependencies are correct, it'll be pulled in by eg dkms,
>> libc-dev etc when expected.
>>
>> So, what is the current justification for installing these packages per default?
>
> special HW i.e. exotic unpacked network card drivers ... without the
> minimal build env we ship you would be pretty screwed getting these to
> build and without network installing the headers and friends is painful.
>
> please lets keep it as is so people can still build third party drivers
> from upstream sources and benefit from the flexibility of linux if
> needed ...

I guess you're talking about the minimal build environment provided by
build-essential, or otherwise?

So, eg it would be intuitive for eg build-essential to
recommend/depend on linux-headers, no? In practise, probably better
for libc6-dev to recommend/depend on linux-headers though, or am I
missing something?

The case you mention seems highly atypical though, since how many
average users will run on exotic hardware and have the source for the
driver they'll just rebuild when they don't have a net connection
anyway?

Thanks,
Daniel
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hi,

Am Dienstag, den 17.07.2012, 23:13 +0800 schrieb Daniel J Blueman:
> > special HW i.e. exotic unpacked network card drivers ... without the
> > minimal build env we ship you would be pretty screwed getting these to
> > build and without network installing the headers and friends is painful.
> >
> > please lets keep it as is so people can still build third party drivers
> > from upstream sources and benefit from the flexibility of linux if
> > needed ...
>
> I guess you're talking about the minimal build environment provided by
> build-essential, or otherwise?

no, i'm talking about the subset of build-essnetial (we used to ship
build-essential, but cut it down to the absolute minimum you need for
driver compiling) we ship on the images...

have a look at lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.quantal/desktop,
there you will find the following section:

----- snip -------
= Development =

Here we provide a minimal development environment sufficient to build
kernel
drivers, so that this is possible on the live CD and in scenarios where
it is problematic to get these packages onto the installed system in
order
to compile a driver. -mdz

* (gcc)
* (make)
* (linux-headers-generic-pae) [i386]
* (linux-headers-generic) [amd64]
* (linux-headers-dove) [armel]

----- snap ------


ciao
oli
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