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Old 04-27-2010, 06:22 AM
Jerone Young
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

Hi all,
In Lucid kernel CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT has been enabled.
There are some issues with this feature.

- Thinkpad users cannot use alsa backports as thinkpad-acpi will
complain about alsa versions. This is required for newer
Thinkpads. thinkpad-acpi will not load if you install alsa
backports.

- This feature still isn't completely sorted out and adds little
value at this point for the Ubuntu Desktop experience.

Can this be turned off?

Thanks,
Jerone


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Old 04-27-2010, 09:40 AM
Stefan Bader
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

Jerone Young wrote:
> Hi all,
> In Lucid kernel CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT has been enabled.
> There are some issues with this feature.
>
> - Thinkpad users cannot use alsa backports as thinkpad-acpi will
> complain about alsa versions. This is required for newer
> Thinkpads. thinkpad-acpi will not load if you install alsa
> backports.
>
> - This feature still isn't completely sorted out and adds little
> value at this point for the Ubuntu Desktop experience.
>
> Can this be turned off?

No, because this has been specifically requested to be in and is the reason
there is a quite recent thinkpad-acpi driver in Lucid. It is the way forward to
make the internal hw mixer usable.
It might be a reason to see whether the lbm alsa loading might be fixable. But
would TPs really need latest ALSA?

-Stefan

> Thanks,
> Jerone
>
>


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Old 04-27-2010, 01:09 PM
Daniel Chen
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Stefan Bader
<stefan.bader@canonical.com> wrote:
> It might be a reason to see whether the lbm alsa loading might be fixable. But
> would TPs really need latest ALSA?

Not likely; the necessary bits tend to lie outside core and in the
codec patch_foo.c directly.

-Dan

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Old 04-27-2010, 01:38 PM
Jerone Young
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 10:40 +0100, Stefan Bader wrote:
> Jerone Young wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > In Lucid kernel CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT has been enabled.
> > There are some issues with this feature.
> >
> > - Thinkpad users cannot use alsa backports as thinkpad-acpi will
> > complain about alsa versions. This is required for newer
> > Thinkpads. thinkpad-acpi will not load if you install alsa
> > backports.
> >
> > - This feature still isn't completely sorted out and adds little
> > value at this point for the Ubuntu Desktop experience.
> >
> > Can this be turned off?
>
> No, because this has been specifically requested to be in and is the reason
> there is a quite recent thinkpad-acpi driver in Lucid. It is the way forward to
> make the internal hw mixer usable.
> It might be a reason to see whether the lbm alsa loading might be fixable. But
> would TPs really need latest ALSA?

Yes new TPs X201, T410, T410s, Tt10, W510, & W710. Will need alsa
backports for Doc Mic support & microphone jack support to work. This
way they can get Ubuntu Certified.

Also the hw mixer does work without this.. This is trying to unify it
(I'm even saying upstream to remove it) .. but this work isn't complete.
Does not turn the hw mixer on in most newer Thinkpads.

Also the hw mixer only mutes the speakers & not the headphone jack.

Thanks,
Jerone

>
> -Stefan
>
> > Thanks,
> > Jerone
> >
> >
>



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Old 04-27-2010, 01:44 PM
Daniel Chen
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 10:40 +0100, Stefan Bader wrote:
>> It might be a reason to see whether the lbm alsa loading might be fixable. But
>> would TPs really need latest ALSA?

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Jerone Young
<jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> Yes new TPs X201, T410, T410s, Tt10, W510, & W710. Will need alsa
> backports for Doc Mic support & microphone jack support to work. This
> way they can get Ubuntu Certified.

But those are codec-specific additions. Backporting (really, just
dropping in) the bits from patch_analog.c (or realtek if necessary for
other models, though I think AD is where the action's at) is
sufficient; a wholesale backport of 1.0.23/master HEAD is not
necessary.

-Dan

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Old 04-27-2010, 01:53 PM
Jerone Young
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 09:44 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 10:40 +0100, Stefan Bader wrote:
> >> It might be a reason to see whether the lbm alsa loading might be fixable. But
> >> would TPs really need latest ALSA?
>
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Jerone Young
> <jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> > Yes new TPs X201, T410, T410s, Tt10, W510, & W710. Will need alsa
> > backports for Doc Mic support & microphone jack support to work. This
> > way they can get Ubuntu Certified.
>
> But those are codec-specific additions. Backporting (really, just
> dropping in) the bits from patch_analog.c (or realtek if necessary for
> other models, though I think AD is where the action's at) is
> sufficient; a wholesale backport of 1.0.23/master HEAD is not
> necessary.

These use conexant chips (I liked when they used the AD chips). The
patch for these is to patch_connexant.c :
http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commit;h=5551cfa7817751bbb42c3e3da41f 1c0f6fa1da81

Though this would not apply cleanly on to of what is in 2.6.32.


Thanks,
Jerone

>
> -Dan



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Old 04-27-2010, 01:55 PM
Daniel Chen
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jerone Young
<jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> These use conexant chips (I liked when they used the AD chips). The
> patch for these is to patch_connexant.c :
> http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commit;h=5551cfa7817751bbb42c3e3da41f 1c0f6fa1da81
>
> Though this would not apply cleanly on to of what is in 2.6.32.

OTOH the Cxt changes aren't that invasive, just kinda big.

-Dan

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Old 04-27-2010, 02:06 PM
Jerone Young
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 09:55 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jerone Young
> <jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> > These use conexant chips (I liked when they used the AD chips). The
> > patch for these is to patch_connexant.c :
> > http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commit;h=5551cfa7817751bbb42c3e3da41f 1c0f6fa1da81
> >
> > Though this would not apply cleanly on to of what is in 2.6.32.
>
> OTOH the Cxt changes aren't that invasive, just kinda big.

What I'm not sure about if these are enough. There have been other
changes to the conexant driver. Also someone would need to port these
over and place them in the tree.

>From what I've seen the best way is to turn CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA
off and allow for alsa-backports to work. This feature doesn't even work
on any newer Thinkpad. It also doesn't do much for older Thinkpads at
the moment. As I said .. I'm talking up removing it completely upstream,
as it was trying to solve a problem at the wrong level.

Thanks,
Jerone

>
> -Dan



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Old 04-27-2010, 03:35 PM
Stefan Bader
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

Jerone Young wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 09:55 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jerone Young
>> <jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
>>> These use conexant chips (I liked when they used the AD chips). The
>>> patch for these is to patch_connexant.c :
>>> http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commit;h=5551cfa7817751bbb42c3e3da41f 1c0f6fa1da81
>>>
>>> Though this would not apply cleanly on to of what is in 2.6.32.
>> OTOH the Cxt changes aren't that invasive, just kinda big.
>
> What I'm not sure about if these are enough. There have been other
> changes to the conexant driver. Also someone would need to port these
> over and place them in the tree.
>
>>From what I've seen the best way is to turn CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA
> off and allow for alsa-backports to work. This feature doesn't even work
> on any newer Thinkpad. It also doesn't do much for older Thinkpads at
> the moment. As I said .. I'm talking up removing it completely upstream,
> as it was trying to solve a problem at the wrong level.

This just has been added there and for a reason. I hope Henrique strongly
resists if you really ever start talking there about removing it. It is doing
things at the right level as there are in fact two mixers on those older
Thinkpads and the only sane way to handle that is to make it possible for
user-space to actually see that.
It is currently not doing much because user-space has to get updated to handle
this. But we certainly don't want the old way of taking the key events when this
results in changing both the hw and audio mixer.

-Stefan

> Thanks,
> Jerone
>
>> -Dan
>
>


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Old 04-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Jerone Young
 
Default Turn off CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA_SUPPORT

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 16:35 +0100, Stefan Bader wrote:
> Jerone Young wrote:
> > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 09:55 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote:
> >> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jerone Young
> >> <jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> >>> These use conexant chips (I liked when they used the AD chips). The
> >>> patch for these is to patch_connexant.c :
> >>> http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commit;h=5551cfa7817751bbb42c3e3da41f 1c0f6fa1da81
> >>>
> >>> Though this would not apply cleanly on to of what is in 2.6.32.
> >> OTOH the Cxt changes aren't that invasive, just kinda big.
> >
> > What I'm not sure about if these are enough. There have been other
> > changes to the conexant driver. Also someone would need to port these
> > over and place them in the tree.
> >
> >>From what I've seen the best way is to turn CONFIG_THINKPAD_ACPI_ALSA
> > off and allow for alsa-backports to work. This feature doesn't even work
> > on any newer Thinkpad. It also doesn't do much for older Thinkpads at
> > the moment. As I said .. I'm talking up removing it completely upstream,
> > as it was trying to solve a problem at the wrong level.
>
> This just has been added there and for a reason. I hope Henrique strongly
> resists if you really ever start talking there about removing it. It is doing
> things at the right level as there are in fact two mixers on those older
> Thinkpads and the only sane way to handle that is to make it possible for
> user-space to actually see that.

Not true. Actually doing it this way makes it more difficult. Also not
the way it is done under Windows.

> It is currently not doing much because user-space has to get updated to handle
> this. But we certainly don't want the old way of taking the key events when this
> results in changing both the hw and audio mixer.

Not with pulse audio involved. Windows (since Vista) also uses a
userspace sound server. What you really need is a userspace daemon that
montiors both pulse audio & the hardware mute key. If one is pressed up
date the other.

Trying to do this at the kernel level is not a good solution.


Besides that should that. Since there is resistance to turn this feature
off. Should I port the ALSA patch over to 2.6.32 for inclusion in the
SRU.


>
> -Stefan
>
> > Thanks,
> > Jerone
> >
> >> -Dan
> >
> >
>



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