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Old 11-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Matthew East
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

Hi,

The schedule for Lucid Lynx appears to have changed radically in
comparison to the previous few releases. I haven't seen any discussion
of this on this list, did I miss it somewhere else? There isn't a
reservation on the page about whether it has been finally decided on
or not, but I'm hoping that some discussion is going to be possible
because the revised schedule is unworkable for the documentation team,
and probably for translators too, as far as I can see

I'm setting out what I see as the problems here.

In the last three releases (Hardy, Jaunty, Karmic), we have had two
weeks between FeatureFreeze (FF) and UserInterfaceFreeze (UIF), and
three weeks between UIF and DocumentationStringFreeze (DSF). In Lucid
however we have FF and UIF on the same day, and DSF one week later.

The main problem for the documentation team is that a five week period
between FF and DSF is now squeezed into one week. The upshot is that
the documentation team has potentially one week to document new
features or string changes in Lucid.

From the documentation team's point of view, we need a decent period
(2-3 weeks) between FF and UIF so that we can give ourselves a target
of getting major new documentation of new features ready by UIF. We
then need a further decent period between UIF and DSF (2-3 weeks) so
that we can focus on ensuring that all the strings referred to in the
documentation match those used in the software.

Translators of documentation also get a pretty raw deal. The
NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline was two weeks after DSF. Now it's
just one week after. So translators then have one week to translate
any new documentation, which could include major documentation of new
features. Again, I'd like to be in a position to assure translators
that major new documentation is in place by UIF, so they can start
work from then, and then assure them of a hard freeze at DSF, where
they can focus on completing any last strings. At the moment, that
simply isn't possible.

I also see, although this doesn't directly affect the documentation
team, that the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is in week 20, instead
of week 26 (Karmic), week 24 (Jaunty) or week 25 (Hardy) which gives
them between 4 and 6 fewer weeks to translate software.

I'd really like to see the timetable used in previous releases
restored. Looking forward to hearing your views.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

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Old 11-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Robbie Williamson
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

Matthew,

You are absolutely correct , and I've tried to correct these errors.
Please review and let me know if things are better. As for the LTS
changes, we set a goal this release to better define what an LTS
*really* is, i.e. to allow us to better define how it is, and is not,
like a regular release of Ubuntu:
http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

I apologize for the recent churn in the schedule, and for the mishap
with some of the deadlines. I'm hoping to send the official schedule
announcement this week once we've done our best to make sure it's
workable for all.

-Robbie

On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 11:40 +0000, Matthew East wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The schedule for Lucid Lynx appears to have changed radically in
> comparison to the previous few releases. I haven't seen any discussion
> of this on this list, did I miss it somewhere else? There isn't a
> reservation on the page about whether it has been finally decided on
> or not, but I'm hoping that some discussion is going to be possible
> because the revised schedule is unworkable for the documentation team,
> and probably for translators too, as far as I can see
>
> I'm setting out what I see as the problems here.
>
> In the last three releases (Hardy, Jaunty, Karmic), we have had two
> weeks between FeatureFreeze (FF) and UserInterfaceFreeze (UIF), and
> three weeks between UIF and DocumentationStringFreeze (DSF). In Lucid
> however we have FF and UIF on the same day, and DSF one week later.
>
> The main problem for the documentation team is that a five week period
> between FF and DSF is now squeezed into one week. The upshot is that
> the documentation team has potentially one week to document new
> features or string changes in Lucid.
>
> From the documentation team's point of view, we need a decent period
> (2-3 weeks) between FF and UIF so that we can give ourselves a target
> of getting major new documentation of new features ready by UIF. We
> then need a further decent period between UIF and DSF (2-3 weeks) so
> that we can focus on ensuring that all the strings referred to in the
> documentation match those used in the software.
>
> Translators of documentation also get a pretty raw deal. The
> NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline was two weeks after DSF. Now it's
> just one week after. So translators then have one week to translate
> any new documentation, which could include major documentation of new
> features. Again, I'd like to be in a position to assure translators
> that major new documentation is in place by UIF, so they can start
> work from then, and then assure them of a hard freeze at DSF, where
> they can focus on completing any last strings. At the moment, that
> simply isn't possible.
>
> I also see, although this doesn't directly affect the documentation
> team, that the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is in week 20, instead
> of week 26 (Karmic), week 24 (Jaunty) or week 25 (Hardy) which gives
> them between 4 and 6 fewer weeks to translate software.
>
> I'd really like to see the timetable used in previous releases
> restored. Looking forward to hearing your views.
>
> --
> Matthew East
> http://www.mdke.org
> gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF
>



--
Robbie Williamson twitter/identi.ca: undacuvabrutha
Ubuntu Foundations & Security Team Manager robbiew[irc.freenode.net]
http://wiki.ubuntu.com robbie@ubuntu.com

"You can't be lucky all the time, but you can be smart everyday"
-Mos Def

"Arrogance is thinking you are better than everyone else, while
Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you." -Me



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Old 11-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Matthew East
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> You are absolutely correct , and I've tried to correct these errors.
> Please review and let me know if things are better.

Thanks Robbie - that looks better from a documentation team point of view.

A couple of quick minor comments on a quick read of the schedule:

1. I'd say that the artwork deadlines are wrong. Currently the final
artwork deadline comes after the DocumentationStringFreeze, which
means that the desktop could in theory change at a time when it isn't
possible to update screenshots. That isn't a problem for the
documentation team at the moment, because we don't use screenshots in
the desktop documentation. Really artwork is covered by the current
definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze) so it would probably be
helpful to get this clarified. I think it was intentional that artwork
be covered by the UI Freeze
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess).

2. The translation deadlines could do with clarifying. "Final
translation export from LP" is listed as week 19, whereas
LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is at week 25. That seems
contradictory because translators will, as usual, be translating right
up until the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline and will count on a
translation export happening after that deadline. Note: I think this
has also been slightly unclear from previous release schedules as
well, albeit there isn't such a large difference between the two
(which I think is just a hangover from the changes you've made today).
As a solution I'd suggest moving the two items to the same stage in
the release cycle.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

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Old 11-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Robbie Williamson
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 22:19 +0000, Matthew East wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > You are absolutely correct , and I've tried to correct these errors.
> > Please review and let me know if things are better.
>
> Thanks Robbie - that looks better from a documentation team point of view.
>
> A couple of quick minor comments on a quick read of the schedule:
>
> 1. I'd say that the artwork deadlines are wrong. Currently the final
> artwork deadline comes after the DocumentationStringFreeze, which
> means that the desktop could in theory change at a time when it isn't
> possible to update screenshots. That isn't a problem for the
> documentation team at the moment, because we don't use screenshots in
> the desktop documentation. Really artwork is covered by the current
> definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze) so it would probably be
> helpful to get this clarified. I think it was intentional that artwork
> be covered by the UI Freeze
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess).

To be honest, I questioned the need for these deadlines in the Karmic
cycle at all. Until Karmic, there was no definition of these
terms...just words in the schedule, so I tried to define them as best as
I could :/. After reading the definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
(again), I agree it needs to be clarified. I went to the Ubuntu Artwork
page [1], and I believe these deadlines are for artwork that is packaged
and made available as *Community-maintained* software (i.e. in
universe). I've updated the definitions to make this clearer
(hopefully), and de-emphasized the drops (i.e., moved them to the
left-most column) since they aren't as critical to the release schedule
as the deadlines & freezes, IMO.

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork

>
> 2. The translation deadlines could do with clarifying. "Final
> translation export from LP" is listed as week 19, whereas
> LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is at week 25. That seems
> contradictory because translators will, as usual, be translating right
> up until the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline and will count on a
> translation export happening after that deadline. Note: I think this
> has also been slightly unclear from previous release schedules as
> well, albeit there isn't such a large difference between the two
> (which I think is just a hangover from the changes you've made today).
> As a solution I'd suggest moving the two items to the same stage in
> the release cycle.
Good catch...fixed.

Thanks,
Robbie


--
Robbie Williamson twitter/identi.ca: undacuvabrutha
Ubuntu Foundations & Security Team Manager robbiew[irc.freenode.net]
http://wiki.ubuntu.com robbie@ubuntu.com

"You can't be lucky all the time, but you can be smart everyday"
-Mos Def

"Arrogance is thinking you are better than everyone else, while
Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you." -Me



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Old 11-02-2009, 01:15 AM
Andrew SB
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 22:19 +0000, Matthew East wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> > You are absolutely correct , and I've tried to correct these errors.
>> > Please review and let me know if things are better.
>>
>> Thanks Robbie - that looks better from a documentation team point of view.
>>
>> A couple of quick minor comments on a quick read of the schedule:
>>
>> 1. I'd say that the artwork deadlines are wrong. Currently the final
>> artwork deadline comes after the DocumentationStringFreeze, which
>> means that the desktop could in theory change at a time when it isn't
>> possible to update screenshots. That isn't a problem for the
>> documentation team at the moment, because we don't use screenshots in
>> the desktop documentation. Really artwork is covered by the current
>> definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
>> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze) so it would probably be
>> helpful to get this clarified. I think it was intentional that artwork
>> be covered by the UI Freeze
>> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess).
>
> To be honest, I questioned the need for these deadlines in the Karmic
> cycle at all. *Until Karmic, there was no definition of these
> terms...just words in the schedule, so I tried to define them as best as
> I could :/. *After reading the definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
> (again), I agree it needs to be clarified. I went to the Ubuntu Artwork
> page [1], and I believe these deadlines are for artwork that is packaged
> and made available as *Community-maintained* software (i.e. in
> universe). I've updated the definitions to make this clearer
> (hopefully), and de-emphasized the drops (i.e., moved them to the
> left-most column) since they aren't as critical to the release schedule
> as the deadlines & freezes, IMO.
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
>

I've also wondered about the usefulness of these deadlines. They've
felt very undefined in the past, especially the Artwork Deadline. That
aside, I can certainly tell you that the community artwork team didn't
define the
ArtworkFirstDrop [0], ArtworkSecondDrop [1], and ArtworkDeadline [2]
schedule. They have existed for quite some time. At the end of the
Jaunty cycle when we created the present selection process for themes
in the "community-themes" package. [3] We choose to use those
pre-existing deadlines in order to mirror the "official" artwork
deadlines.

If we are indeed the only people using those, I would suggest removing
them from the release schedule all together. The official artwork
didn't follow this schedual at all during Karmic. As it stands now, it
simply seems to cause confusion. Just read all the disappointment on
the forums when an "Artwork Drop" passes with no changes to the
official theme.

- Andrew

[0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFirstDrop
[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkSecondDrop
[2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkDeadline
[3] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/CommunityThemes

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Old 11-02-2009, 01:29 AM
Robbie Williamson
 
Default Lucid Release Schedule

On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 22:15 -0400, Andrew SB wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 22:19 +0000, Matthew East wrote:
> >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Robbie Williamson <robbie@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >> > You are absolutely correct , and I've tried to correct these errors.
> >> > Please review and let me know if things are better.
> >>
> >> Thanks Robbie - that looks better from a documentation team point of view.
> >>
> >> A couple of quick minor comments on a quick read of the schedule:
> >>
> >> 1. I'd say that the artwork deadlines are wrong. Currently the final
> >> artwork deadline comes after the DocumentationStringFreeze, which
> >> means that the desktop could in theory change at a time when it isn't
> >> possible to update screenshots. That isn't a problem for the
> >> documentation team at the moment, because we don't use screenshots in
> >> the desktop documentation. Really artwork is covered by the current
> >> definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
> >> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze) so it would probably be
> >> helpful to get this clarified. I think it was intentional that artwork
> >> be covered by the UI Freeze
> >> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess).
> >
> > To be honest, I questioned the need for these deadlines in the Karmic
> > cycle at all. Until Karmic, there was no definition of these
> > terms...just words in the schedule, so I tried to define them as best as
> > I could :/. After reading the definition of UserInterfaceFreeze
> > (again), I agree it needs to be clarified. I went to the Ubuntu Artwork
> > page [1], and I believe these deadlines are for artwork that is packaged
> > and made available as *Community-maintained* software (i.e. in
> > universe). I've updated the definitions to make this clearer
> > (hopefully), and de-emphasized the drops (i.e., moved them to the
> > left-most column) since they aren't as critical to the release schedule
> > as the deadlines & freezes, IMO.
> >
> > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
> >
>
> I've also wondered about the usefulness of these deadlines. They've
> felt very undefined in the past, especially the Artwork Deadline. That
> aside, I can certainly tell you that the community artwork team didn't
> define the
> ArtworkFirstDrop [0], ArtworkSecondDrop [1], and ArtworkDeadline [2]
> schedule. They have existed for quite some time. At the end of the
> Jaunty cycle when we created the present selection process for themes
> in the "community-themes" package. [3] We choose to use those
> pre-existing deadlines in order to mirror the "official" artwork
> deadlines.
>
> If we are indeed the only people using those, I would suggest removing
> them from the release schedule all together. The official artwork
> didn't follow this schedual at all during Karmic. As it stands now, it
> simply seems to cause confusion. Just read all the disappointment on
> the forums when an "Artwork Drop" passes with no changes to the
> official theme.
Works for me! I wanted to drop them, but as you can see, changes to
the schedule always come with a "price" .

-Robbie

>
> - Andrew
>
> [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFirstDrop
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkSecondDrop
> [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkDeadline
> [3] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/CommunityThemes



--
Robbie Williamson twitter/identi.ca: undacuvabrutha
Ubuntu Foundations & Security Team Manager robbiew[irc.freenode.net]
http://wiki.ubuntu.com robbie@ubuntu.com

"You can't be lucky all the time, but you can be smart everyday"
-Mos Def

"Arrogance is thinking you are better than everyone else, while
Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you." -Me



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