FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Ubuntu > Ubuntu Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 02-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Matthew Paul Thomas
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 25/02/09 09:40:
>...
> We had a detailed call last night between Canonical folks in the
> Ubuntu Desktop team, the design team and the upstream DX engineering
> team that did the notifications work, and MPT will write up that
> discussion.
>...

In that call, we discussed and decided on several options for making
updates less obtrusive. Many of them were first suggested in this
thread, so thanks to those of you who made specific proposals.

We plan to make these fixes in Jaunty:

* The problem with Update Manager appearing frontmost in Compiz is the
result of a change in Compiz three weeks ago. We will change this in
Jaunty, and we are discussing it with Compiz upstream too.
<http://launchpad.net/bugs/333284>

* Update Manager will not open automatically while you have another
package management tool (such as Add/Remove Programs or Synaptic)
open. <http://launchpad.net/bugs/334935>

* As well as staying closed for a week (excepting security updates)
after it has been open for any reason, Update Manager will also
stay closed for a week if you have installed updates by any method,
including apt-get or aptitude. <http://launchpad.net/bugs/334952>

* A "Settingsā€¦" button will be added to Update Manager, to make it
easier to get to the settings for changing the update interval and
for automatically installing security updates. (Those settings are
currently so well-hidden, even some of the people posting to
ubuntu-devel@ apparently didn't know about them.)
<http://launchpad.net/bugs/334959>

* When it does open automatically, Update Manager will use nice and
ionice to reduce CPU and disk load.
<http://launchpad.net/bugs/334965> Separately, Michael Vogt is
investigating reducing Update Manager's memory consumption.

Anyone who wants to help out with patches for these is more than welcome.

Cheers
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkmmvJoACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpQPgCfdkQ8ziNFGi EQGapQg+K6UgG0
p4cAoIKCK6w69P3DirYU2wVizW2LRao9
=s7jO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 02-27-2009, 08:28 PM
Jordan Mantha
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@canonical.com> wrote:
<snip>
> * * As well as staying closed for a week (excepting security updates)
> * *after it has been open for any reason, Update Manager will also
> * *stay closed for a week if you have installed updates by any method,
> * *including apt-get or aptitude. <http://launchpad.net/bugs/334952>

Is there going to be *any* indicator that says "you have updates"
without actually launching a program? I just ran into a little
confusion as I popped open Synaptic to install something and was faced
with 139 updates (I'm running Jaunty of course). So my computer knew I
had updates but it failed to tell me about them, I find that a tad
frustrating. It took me a little bit to remember that update-notifier
was no longer around. So the question is, how can I get notified when
I have updates available and also tell me how many? Do we have
something like that in Jaunty yet?

-Jordan

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 02-28-2009, 11:59 PM
Jan Claeys
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

Op vrijdag 27-02-2009 om 13:28 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef Jordan
Mantha:
> Is there going to be *any* indicator that says "you have updates"
> without actually launching a program? I just ran into a little
> confusion as I popped open Synaptic to install something and was faced
> with 139 updates (I'm running Jaunty of course). So my computer knew I
> had updates but it failed to tell me about them, I find that a tad
> frustrating. It took me a little bit to remember that update-notifier
> was no longer around. So the question is, how can I get notified when
> I have updates available and also tell me how many? Do we have
> something like that in Jaunty yet?

Well, currently you can keep a terminal window open and run screen in
it, using one of the new ubuntu-* screen profiles provided by the
'screen-profiles' package... :-P

Now seriously, I agree that we need 'update-notifier' back, or at least
the part that displays the "there are new updates" and "you need to
reboot" icons.
If I have to change an option somewhere to get them that's okay, but
just like you *I want to see this _very important_ information*.


--
Jan Claeys


--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 08:33 AM
Matthew Paul Thomas
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jordan Mantha wrote on 27/02/09 21:28:
>...
> Is there going to be *any* indicator that says "you have updates"
> without actually launching a program?
>...

Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
benefit of those who install them using the terminal.

Cheers
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkmrp/IACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecq+zwCgoIdTUCAcyqd3048K2VlPyG+R
FYsAmwSJhphkamNkAZI3iO46ZkGlOVsO
=zTH1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
"C. Cooke"
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 09:33:42AM +0000, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> Jordan Mantha wrote on 27/02/09 21:28:
> >...
> > Is there going to be *any* indicator that says "you have updates"
> > without actually launching a program?
> >...
>
> Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
> come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
> benefit of those who install them using the terminal.
>

Having read through the policies for the new notification system, it
looks like there is a (possible) easy answer to this:

We handle persistent information in the same way any other application is
supposed to handle it.

Looking here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines

By definition, notifications like "You need to reboot" or "There are
updates ready if you want to install them" fall into the "Can Wait" and
"Don't need user input" categories. They *could* take user input, of
course, but they do *not* need to: There are existing routes to all of
this functionality.

According to the guidelines, notification falling into this category
should go into a normal window: "When a notification is not
time-critical, and there is a relevant window to display it in, present
the notification as a banner or other text in that window. Depending on
its importance, you can have the window request attention. And if the
window is not currently open, you can open it automatically, in the
background to minimize accidental clicks."

This is good, but the specification fails to specify what happens if
there *is* no normal window - as is the case where the notification is
about Ubuntu as a whole.

So, a possible solution (Using Gnome terminology only for clarity, but
easily stretched to other environments): Create a gnome-panel applet
designed to display important status notification. It'll need a minimum
size of a couple of words and the ability to sides-croll text if the
message is too long. It'll also want reasonable message length limits.
Do not add this to the panel automatically. If the applet is running,
display the message there; if it is not running *AND* the message is
important ("You need to reboot now or things will be broken"), spawn a
new gnome-panel at the top or bottom of the screen (configurable) with
the applet taking the full width. For less important messages ("There
are updates ready if you want to install them"), do *NOT* create a
panel.

This solves the lack of persistent notification of serious conditions
(Such as will happen if you close the security update or you-need-to-reboot
window). It also means that those of use who want to see the
*unimportant* notifications get to see them: We just add the applet to
or panel. Since the notification is text and not an icon, it remains
understandable.

I realise this is almost certainly too late for Jaunty, but it's a
viable possibility for Jaunty+1; what's more, it's something simple
enough that I could probably code up a working model before Jaunty
releases if anyone wants to test it (Although if anyone else who already
knows the interfaces wants to volunteer, be my guest: I've done little
gnome coding :-)

(Of course, it's always possible that I've misread the spec and this is
entirely horrible - or was already discussed somewhere I don't have
(findable) access to and dismissed as egregious and wrong. But hey, I
don't know that yet)

--
for((P=10**8,Q=P/100,X=320*Q/(`tput cols`-1),Y=210*Q/`tput lines`,y=-105*Q,v=-2
20*Q,x=v;y<105*Q;x=v,y+=Y));do for((;x<P;a=b=i=k=c=0,x+=X));do for((;a*a+b*b<2*
P*P&&i++<99;a=((c=a)*a-b*b)/P+x,b=2*c*b/P+y));do :;done;(((j=(i<99?i%16:0)+30)>
37?k=1,j-=8:0));echo -ne "E[$k;$j"mE;done;echo -e E[0m;done # Charles Cooke
--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 10:33 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:33:42 +0000 Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@canonical.com>
wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Jordan Mantha wrote on 27/02/09 21:28:
>>...
>> Is there going to be *any* indicator that says "you have updates"
>> without actually launching a program?
>>...
>
>Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
>come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
>benefit of those who install them using the terminal.
>
So it's only terminal users that need to know about updates in a timely
manner?

Scott K

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 11:04 AM
Matthew Paul Thomas
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Scott Kitterman wrote on 02/03/09 11:33:
>
> On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:33:42 +0000 Matthew Paul Thomas
>...
>> Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
>> come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
>> benefit of those who install them using the terminal.
>
> So it's only terminal users that need to know about updates in a timely
> manner?
>...

No. As has been discussed in great deal over the past week, for people
who install updates using Update Manager, Update Manager will tell them
about updates in a timely manner.

Cheers
- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkmryzgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoFnwCgxCNPXcSpnY avp0SRmdNyFUHI
ID0AoNFEKoosGkUzrQ8VrebeXS+Q/svt
=hS9G
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 11:29 AM
Scott Kitterman
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:04:12 +0000 Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@canonical.com>
wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Scott Kitterman wrote on 02/03/09 11:33:
>>
>> On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:33:42 +0000 Matthew Paul Thomas
>>...
>>> Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
>>> come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
>>> benefit of those who install them using the terminal.
>>
>> So it's only terminal users that need to know about updates in a timely
>> manner?
>>...
>
>No. As has been discussed in great deal over the past week, for people
>who install updates using Update Manager, Update Manager will tell them
>about updates in a timely manner.
>

Up to a week later is not timely.

Scott K

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Dustin Kirkland
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 3:33 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@canonical.com> wrote:
> Not by default. I'm sure if there is sufficient demand, someone will
> come up with a script that advertises updates in the terminal for the
> benefit of those who install them using the terminal.

From the terminal, this is available in two places...

There is an update-motd job that checks for updates available, so the
number of updates available will be listed at the end of your
/etc/motd:

Linux t61p 2.6.28-8-generic #26-Ubuntu SMP Wed Feb 25 04:27:53 UTC
2009 x86_64

The programs included with the Ubuntu system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by
applicable law.

To access official Ubuntu documentation, please visit:
http://help.ubuntu.com/

125 packages can be updated.
0 updates are security updates.


And, as Jan mentioned, if you're running screen, you will have the
number of updates available as white text on a red background, as seen
at:
* http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/Screenshot-ec2-cost.png
An exclamation point is appended if any updates are security updates.

Obviously, this does not solve the desktop case. But on
command-line-only servers, this is exceptionally useful!

:-Dustin

--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 
Old 03-02-2009, 03:42 PM
Martin Pitt
 
Default Making Update Manager less obtrusive

Scott Kitterman [2009-03-02 7:29 -0500]:
> Up to a week later is not timely.

It's certainly much *more* often than I'd want my parents or wife to
upgrade their system. Please keep in mind that in general, as an user
of stable releases, these updates are a burden for me, not something
I crave for in general. If a bad bug affects me and I wait for
updates, then I can still check update-manager manually, but in
general I want to work *with* my system as a stable user, not *on* it.

That's why I proposed to disable those update notifications for
non-security updates completely; however, I appreciate that this might
not be a majority opinion, thus I can reasonably live with the
compromise of "once per week", since/if there is an easy way to
disable them completely.

Martin
--
Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de
Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org)
--
ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:38 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org