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Old 02-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Paul Sladen
 
Default ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: ...

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> In that discusion it was declared that alt-sysreq-k was "better" because
> it's harder to hit

On some laptops [and non-i386 stuff], it's _extremely_ hard to hit a Sysreq
combination. On special keyboards it may, or may not require
Shift-and-Alt-and-Fn and may, or may not be on the same key as PrntScrn.

I'd replace my earlier support of a five-second hold period, with instead
the consecutive double-hit used by SuSE as that patch (a) already exists,
(b) activates if somebody thinks "that didn't work, I'll try it again".

-Paul
--
Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB.


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Old 02-02-2009, 02:07 PM
Lars Wirzenius
 
Default ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: ...

su, 2009-02-01 kello 19:19 +0000, Paul Sladen kirjoitti:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > In that discusion it was declared that alt-sysreq-k was "better" because
> > it's harder to hit
>
> On some laptops [and non-i386 stuff], it's _extremely_ hard to hit a Sysreq
> combination. On special keyboards it may, or may not require
> Shift-and-Alt-and-Fn and may, or may not be on the same key as PrntScrn.
>
> I'd replace my earlier support of a five-second hold period, with instead
> the consecutive double-hit used by SuSE as that patch (a) already exists,
> (b) activates if somebody thinks "that didn't work, I'll try it again".

I disable control-alt-backspace on my X servers, because I find myself
typing it by mistake way too often. On the other hand, X crashes on my
very rarely.

The situation where I type the fatal keystroke by mistake is this: some
programs (GUI) want control-backspace to delete the word before the
cursor. Other programs (terminal emulators) want alt-backspace. When I'm
a mode where I switch between an editor (GUI) and a terminal window
window (test, fix, test loop), my finger often type control-backspace in
the terminal window, then realize their error and quickly type
alt-backspace. However, since my fingers are slow and clumsy, my pinky
won't lift itself from the control key before I type alt-backspace.

I've even given my pinky doping to make it faster, but it's no good.
It's a very slow finger.

Since my fingers tend to type without my brain being involved, they
often do things by reflex. Thus, they will easily type
control-alt-backspace multiple times, in desperation, in the vain hope
that repeating the keystroke will make things work. Also, sometimes my
fingers want to delete multiple words.

Thus, I don't think requiring repeating control-alt-backspace to zap the
X server is going to be of much use to me to prevent accidental
slaughter. A completely different keystroke is going to be needed,
something that never gets hit otherwise.

Perhaps control-alt-esc followed by control-alt-backspace followed by
control-alt-esc again? Or something like that.


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Old 02-02-2009, 02:23 PM
Jerone Young
 
Default ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: ...

I guess where I am a little lost is, why do we need this any key
combination anymore? We are at a point in time where this feature is not
a needed as it once was.

We are entering a time where X windows has majorly matured. We should
have a way to enable the feature (as there are people still wanting it),
but by default this really isn't needed anymore.

If anything key combination should bring up a menu (as it does for the M
$ OS). Only someone with adminitrator should the ability to enable
cntrl-alt-backspace. But ultimately this feature should go away.

I don't think changing the keys is going to do anything, but cause
confusion, and as with the Suse case diverge from upstream.

Thanks,
Jerone


On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:07 +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> su, 2009-02-01 kello 19:19 +0000, Paul Sladen kirjoitti:
> > On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > > In that discusion it was declared that alt-sysreq-k was "better" because
> > > it's harder to hit
> >
> > On some laptops [and non-i386 stuff], it's _extremely_ hard to hit a Sysreq
> > combination. On special keyboards it may, or may not require
> > Shift-and-Alt-and-Fn and may, or may not be on the same key as PrntScrn.
> >
> > I'd replace my earlier support of a five-second hold period, with instead
> > the consecutive double-hit used by SuSE as that patch (a) already exists,
> > (b) activates if somebody thinks "that didn't work, I'll try it again".
>
> I disable control-alt-backspace on my X servers, because I find myself
> typing it by mistake way too often. On the other hand, X crashes on my
> very rarely.
>
> The situation where I type the fatal keystroke by mistake is this: some
> programs (GUI) want control-backspace to delete the word before the
> cursor. Other programs (terminal emulators) want alt-backspace. When I'm
> a mode where I switch between an editor (GUI) and a terminal window
> window (test, fix, test loop), my finger often type control-backspace in
> the terminal window, then realize their error and quickly type
> alt-backspace. However, since my fingers are slow and clumsy, my pinky
> won't lift itself from the control key before I type alt-backspace.
>
> I've even given my pinky doping to make it faster, but it's no good.
> It's a very slow finger.
>
> Since my fingers tend to type without my brain being involved, they
> often do things by reflex. Thus, they will easily type
> control-alt-backspace multiple times, in desperation, in the vain hope
> that repeating the keystroke will make things work. Also, sometimes my
> fingers want to delete multiple words.
>
> Thus, I don't think requiring repeating control-alt-backspace to zap the
> X server is going to be of much use to me to prevent accidental
> slaughter. A completely different keystroke is going to be needed,
> something that never gets hit otherwise.
>
> Perhaps control-alt-esc followed by control-alt-backspace followed by
> control-alt-esc again? Or something like that.
>
>
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:48 PM
John McCabe-Dansted
 
Default ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: ...

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Jerone Young
<jerone.young@canonical.com> wrote:
> We are entering a time where X windows has majorly matured. We should
> have a way to enable the feature (as there are people still wanting it),
> but by default this really isn't needed anymore.

I am still seeing regular crashes with fglrx when under heavy 3D load.

> If anything key combination should bring up a menu (as it does for the M
> $ OS).

Is this feasible? I would have thought that if we can display a menu
we wouldn't need a Ctrl-Alt-Backspace.

Another option would be to have a count down timer; giving the user
several seconds to cancel the zap. If the X server is working then the
user can see the timer and cancel the zap. If the X server isn't
working then a zap may be a good idea regardless of whether it was
accidental. Hopefully we'd be able to choose the length of the delay
such that we can satisfy everyone's needs.

--
John C. McCabe-Dansted
PhD Student
University of Western Australia

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Old 02-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
 
Default ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: ...

On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:07 +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> The situation where I type the fatal keystroke by mistake is this: some
> programs (GUI) want control-backspace to delete the word before the
> cursor. Other programs (terminal emulators) want alt-backspace.

You can change the terminal emulator to match the editor or vice versa.

--
Mackenzie Morgan
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com
apt-get moo
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