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-   -   ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu (http://www.linux-archive.org/ubuntu-development/237372-ctrl-alt-backspace-aka-dont-zap-via-gui-lp-albertomilone-gnome-control-center-randr-virtual-into-lp-ubuntu-core-dev-gnome-control-center-ubuntu.html)

Oliver Grawert 01-30-2009 08:06 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
hi,

Am Freitag, den 30.01.2009, 21:12 +0100 schrieb Stefan Potyra:
> Forwarding to ubuntu-devel, since I fully share your believe that this
> discussion should be held on a mailing list instead of a merge request.
>
> Please only follow-up to the mailing list in response.
hooray, thanks a lot !

ciao
oli
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Steve Langasek 01-30-2009 10:00 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 04:06:16PM -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> In that discusion it was declared that alt-sysreq-k was "better" because
> it's harder to hit accidentally and more reliable due to being implemented
> in the kernel and not X.

> So far I've tested this approach on one laptop and I find it "not working".
> If we are going to hand this to end users as the solution to a locked X, I
> think it needs testing first.

I've tested it here (in response to this discussion) and it "works" in that
it reliably kills X and gdm respawns it automatically, but it also mangles
my text VTs.

Timo says this is a bug in the intel drm driver. That's fair; but it
doesn't invalidate the point that using SysReq+K on my system gives inferior
results compared with Ctrl+Alt+BkSp in the general case.

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Timo Aaltonen 01-30-2009 10:28 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 04:06:16PM -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> In that discusion it was declared that alt-sysreq-k was "better" because
>> it's harder to hit accidentally and more reliable due to being implemented
>> in the kernel and not X.
>
>> So far I've tested this approach on one laptop and I find it "not working".
>> If we are going to hand this to end users as the solution to a locked X, I
>> think it needs testing first.
>
> I've tested it here (in response to this discussion) and it "works" in that
> it reliably kills X and gdm respawns it automatically, but it also mangles
> my text VTs.
>
> Timo says this is a bug in the intel drm driver. That's fair; but it
> doesn't invalidate the point that using SysReq+K on my system gives inferior
> results compared with Ctrl+Alt+BkSp in the general case.

Actually, upstream said it's more like a feature of the userspace drivers.
Zap does a leavevt where sysrq+k doesn't, so the hw can be left in an
inconsistent state, just like when the xserver crashes hard (where zapping
has been used the most, if it works).

And when the hw supports kernel modesetting there won't be corrupt vt's
anymore.

t

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Jerone Young 01-30-2009 10:30 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
Should this not be something that should only be allowed to be activated
in the xorg.conf?

The reason I ask is what happens if you have users using user switching?
Are the other users screwed by the one user who turns on
cntrl-alt-backspace?

On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 21:12 +0100, Stefan Potyra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [for the record, discussion about allowing a user to activate
> ctrl-alt-backspace via gui].
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 06:16:02PM -0000, Jordan Mantha wrote:
> >
> > One more point. This is *so* not the place [..] to have a
> > conversation like this. [..]
> > If you have a problem with it, use the
> > ubuntu-devel mailing list.
>
> Forwarding to ubuntu-devel, since I fully share your believe that this
> discussion should be held on a mailing list instead of a merge request.
>
> Please only follow-up to the mailing list in response.
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan.
>
>
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Dylan McCall 01-30-2009 10:31 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
> I've tested it here (in response to this discussion) and it "works" in that
> it reliably kills X and gdm respawns it automatically, but it also mangles
> my text VTs.
>
> Timo says this is a bug in the intel drm driver. That's fair; but it
> doesn't invalidate the point that using SysReq+K on my system gives inferior
> results compared with Ctrl+Alt+BkSp in the general case.

Which is exactly why, for those who care about text VTs and killing X,
there is a completely viable option to re-enable zapping. Any polls on
this topic will be biased since the people currently affected by the
change are running an in-development version of Ubuntu and therefore are
going to have more lockups than the common user and have an
understanding of what Ctrl+Alt+Backspace actually does other than "break
the program".

-Dylan McCall
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Martin Pitt 02-01-2009 08:56 PM

ctrl-alt-backspace aka don't zap via GUI, was: lp:~albertomilone/gnome-control-center/randr-virtual into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-control-center/ubuntu
 
Jerone Young [2009-01-30 17:30 -0600]:
> Should this not be something that should only be allowed to be activated
> in the xorg.conf?

It is. The dontzap commandline tool does exactly that (as well as the
proposed control center patch, which needs admin rights through
PolicyKit).

> The reason I ask is what happens if you have users using user switching?
> Are the other users screwed by the one user who turns on
> cntrl-alt-backspace?

Yes, they are.

Martin
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