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Old 01-23-2009, 10:13 PM
Jani Monoses
 
Default 700/703 Mb CD size

Hello,

do you know if a significant percentage of so-called 700 Mb CDs cannot
actually hold 360,000 * 2048 = ~703Mb which is given as the 'standard'
CD size for 80 min media?

The current Ubuntu CD image size limit is 700, and I wonder if it was
picked after failure to get 703 Mb on enough real CDs.

CD size is always an issue and those extra Mbs translate into a few
times more on the uncompressed live image.

thank you
Jani


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Old 01-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Paul Sladen
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Jani Monoses wrote:
> The current Ubuntu CD image size limit is 700

It is, as you note (80*60*75*2048 bytes), hopefully plus lead-in and
lead-out sector allowances and often with a tiny little bit extra (see
"overburning").

Where is the comparision being done, is it the number of bytes in the
resulting ISO (eg. inclusive of meta-data), or the number of bytes of the
packages, in the hope that the final result (metadata added) will fit?

One advantage of producing an exactly size .iso might be that people would
not try to burn it by dragging it *as a file* (rather than image) onto a
CD-R; the software would complain earlier it wouldn't fit.

If you're *really* tight of space, there's about half-a-megabyte (N files *
~1024) of it spare at the end of unfilled sectors (less on the desktop CD).

-Paul
--
Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB.


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Old 01-24-2009, 04:48 PM
Jerome Haltom
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

Sort of off topic, but I wanted to drop it out there.

I was trying to get my dad to download and run the Live CD a few days
ago, and he could not figure out what he was supposed to do with the
ISO. Of course, XP has no way to burn an ISO. And there are no
instructions on the site suggesting how to accomplish it.

He basically did as Paul said, dragged it to the CD burner software.

Wonder if there would be a good way to distribute a CD burner
application along with the .iso for Windows users.

On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 15:25 +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Jani Monoses wrote:
> > The current Ubuntu CD image size limit is 700
>
> It is, as you note (80*60*75*2048 bytes), hopefully plus lead-in and
> lead-out sector allowances and often with a tiny little bit extra (see
> "overburning").
>
> Where is the comparision being done, is it the number of bytes in the
> resulting ISO (eg. inclusive of meta-data), or the number of bytes of the
> packages, in the hope that the final result (metadata added) will fit?
>
> One advantage of producing an exactly size .iso might be that people would
> not try to burn it by dragging it *as a file* (rather than image) onto a
> CD-R; the software would complain earlier it wouldn't fit.
>
> If you're *really* tight of space, there's about half-a-megabyte (N files *
> ~1024) of it spare at the end of unfilled sectors (less on the desktop CD).
>
> -Paul
> --
> Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB.
>
>


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Old 01-24-2009, 05:50 PM
Martijn van de Streek
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

The Windows 7 beta seems to know what to do with .iso files when you double-click them, so it's only a matter of time before this problem is solved automatically

In the meantime, adding hints about what to do with the .iso file you're downloading might be a good addition to the download pages.

Martijn



2009/1/24 Jerome Haltom <wasabi@larvalstage.net>

Sort of off topic, but I wanted to drop it out there.



I was trying to get my dad to download and run the Live CD a few days

ago, and he could not figure out what he was supposed to do with the

ISO. Of course, XP has no way to burn an ISO. And there are no

instructions on the site suggesting how to accomplish it.



He basically did as Paul said, dragged it to the CD burner software.



Wonder if there would be a good way to distribute a CD burner

application along with the .iso for Windows users.



On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 15:25 +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Jani Monoses wrote:

> > The current Ubuntu CD image size limit is 700

>

> It is, as you note (80*60*75*2048 bytes), hopefully plus lead-in and

> lead-out sector allowances and often with a tiny little bit extra (see

> "overburning").

>

> Where is the comparision being done, is it the number of bytes in the

> resulting ISO (eg. inclusive of meta-data), or the number of bytes of the

> packages, in the hope that the final result (metadata added) will fit?

>

> One advantage of producing an exactly size .iso might be that people would

> not try to burn it by dragging it *as a file* (rather than image) onto a

> CD-R; the software would complain earlier it wouldn't fit.

>

> If you're *really* tight of space, there's about half-a-megabyte (N files *

> ~1024) of it spare at the end of unfilled sectors (less on the desktop CD).

>

> * * * -Paul

> --

> Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. *Somewhere, GB.

>

>





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Old 01-24-2009, 06:11 PM
Rick Spencer
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

On 01/24/2009 09:48 AM, Jerome Haltom wrote:
> Wonder if there would be a good way to distribute a CD burner
> application along with the .iso for Windows users.
Perhaps the site could host an .exe that wraps the iso and how XP does
cd burning? So it's a "create Ubuntu CD" app that Windows users download.

Cheers, Rick

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Old 01-24-2009, 06:20 PM
Jordan Mantha
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Jerome Haltom <wasabi@larvalstage.net> wrote:
> Sort of off topic, but I wanted to drop it out there.
>
> I was trying to get my dad to download and run the Live CD a few days
> ago, and he could not figure out what he was supposed to do with the
> ISO. Of course, XP has no way to burn an ISO. And there are no
> instructions on the site suggesting how to accomplish it.

When you use http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download to download the
.iso it gives you a page with a "Need Help?" section that links to
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto which has
instructions for how to burn the .iso on Windows, OS X, Ubuntu,
Kubuntu, and Xubuntu.

Even on releases.ubuntu.com the page links to the BurningIsoHowto page
as well as a USB image writing guide now for mobile stuff.

-Jordan

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Old 01-24-2009, 07:19 PM
Martin Owens
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

Hi Jordan,

> Even on releases.ubuntu.com the page links to the BurningIsoHowto page
> as well as a USB image writing guide now for mobile stuff.

The problem is that some users don't know what iso files are and just
assume what they need to do. Others would take the very notion that you
need instructions at all, to be a sign that it's too hard to use.

Regards, Martin


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Old 01-24-2009, 11:41 PM
Jerome Haltom
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

You are right. I was blind. But, I suppose, something is wrong if my Dad
failed to notice this, and so did I. And most of the replies to my
message.


On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 11:20 -0800, Jordan Mantha wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Jerome Haltom <wasabi@larvalstage.net> wrote:
> > Sort of off topic, but I wanted to drop it out there.
> >
> > I was trying to get my dad to download and run the Live CD a few days
> > ago, and he could not figure out what he was supposed to do with the
> > ISO. Of course, XP has no way to burn an ISO. And there are no
> > instructions on the site suggesting how to accomplish it.
>
> When you use http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download to download the
> .iso it gives you a page with a "Need Help?" section that links to
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto which has
> instructions for how to burn the .iso on Windows, OS X, Ubuntu,
> Kubuntu, and Xubuntu.
>
> Even on releases.ubuntu.com the page links to the BurningIsoHowto page
> as well as a USB image writing guide now for mobile stuff.
>
> -Jordan
>


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Old 01-26-2009, 06:33 AM
Steve Langasek
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 03:25:56PM +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Jani Monoses wrote:
> > The current Ubuntu CD image size limit is 700

> It is, as you note (80*60*75*2048 bytes), hopefully plus lead-in and
> lead-out sector allowances and often with a tiny little bit extra (see
> "overburning").

> Where is the comparision being done, is it the number of bytes in the
> resulting ISO (eg. inclusive of meta-data), or the number of bytes of the
> packages, in the hope that the final result (metadata added) will fit?

> One advantage of producing an exactly size .iso might be that people would
> not try to burn it by dragging it *as a file* (rather than image) onto a
> CD-R; the software would complain earlier it wouldn't fit.

> If you're *really* tight of space, there's about half-a-megabyte (N files *
> ~1024) of it spare at the end of unfilled sectors (less on the desktop CD).

Here is the size limit and accompanying comments from the bin/publish-daily
script.

# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM says
# 737280000; Media Motion say 736051200 for our
# pressed CDs, so we'll use the smaller value.
#SIZELIMIT=736051200
# ... except apparently some software/media has
# problems with anything over 700 (binary) MB. Argh.
SIZELIMIT="$((700 * 1024 * 1024))"
;;

This was added by Colin in revision 555. Colin, do you remember what had
problems with the larger value?

It would certainly be great to suddenly have another 2MB of room to spare on
the CD images...

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org

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Old 01-26-2009, 09:24 AM
Matthew Paul Thomas
 
Default 700/703 MB CD size

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Hash: SHA1

Rick Spencer wrote on 24/01/09 19:11:
>
> On 01/24/2009 09:48 AM, Jerome Haltom wrote:
>>
>> Wonder if there would be a good way to distribute a CD burner
>> application along with the .iso for Windows users.
>
> Perhaps the site could host an .exe that wraps the iso and how XP does
> cd burning? So it's a "create Ubuntu CD" app that Windows users
> download.
>...

Other discussion of this idea:
<http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/2819/>
<http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/OS_20Install_20Disk_20AutoBurn>

- --
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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