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Old 01-06-2009, 11:13 PM
"Brian Thomason"
 
Default Including shared libraries in a package

Hey guys,

In handling Partner Repo packages, it is quite common to see vendors include their own copies of libraries within their own packages.* They do this for various reasons.* Parallels, for instance, does it for both QA and licensing purposes.* They include common libraries so that they only have to QA one build across many Linuxes. This, we try to recommend against and have them link against the system libraries instead, but we meet with varying success there.*


However, they also include their own build of QT for licensing reasons, since they own a commercial license to QT and can't link against the GPLed version we provide.

Another common reason vendors include copies of libraries, as is the case with the upcoming Alfresco and Zarafa packages, is because the ones we provide aren't new enough for them.* With the Open Source Ubuntu model, this isn't a concern, as the package will simply wait to be included in the upcoming dist with newer versions of the required libraries available.* However, for commercial vendors, it isn't that easy.* Most of our server-oriented vendors want to be in the artner Repo for LTS releases only.* So, with Zarafa, we are including some libraries in the package itself and for Alfresco, we are including a statically linked version of the pdf2swf application to meet their needs.


Now that I have bored you sufficiently, my question really is: Is there a better way to meet their needs that also better follows our standard practices?

Best regards,

Brian

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Old 01-08-2009, 07:23 AM
Stephan Hermann
 
Default Including shared libraries in a package

Hi Brian,


On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:13:02 -0500
"Brian Thomason" <brian.thomason@canonical.com> wrote:

> [...]
>
> Now that I have bored you sufficiently, my question really is: Is
> there a better way to meet their needs that also better follows our
> standard practices?

To be honest, I use some third party non-open-source apps from those
vendors and even when I don't like their politics sometimes, I do
appreciate when they do not install their libs under /usr/*

I do like the way of installing those apps and with their needed libs
(I do understand why they need sometimes different libs then we are
shipping) under
/opt/<vendor>/<application>-<version>/{bin,etc,lib,share,<whatever>}

and then a symlink from
/opt/<vendor>/<application>-<version>/
to
/opt/<vendor>/<application>/

when ACKed by sysadmin.

Why?

It helps me to separate the (mostly) closed source crap from the
standard OS (with this I mean the ubuntu server installation with the
shipped software). I can deal with updates/upgrades more smoothly and
know that those packages are not touching or installing anything on my
standard server installation.

Regards,

sh

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:45 PM
Luka Renko
 
Default Including shared libraries in a package

On Thursday 08 January 2009 09:23:50 Stephan Hermann wrote:
> To be honest, I use some third party non-open-source apps from those
> vendors and even when I don't like their politics sometimes, I do
> appreciate when they do not install their libs under /usr/*
>
> I do like the way of installing those apps and with their needed libs
> (I do understand why they need sometimes different libs then we are
> shipping) under
> /opt/<vendor>/<application>-<version>/{bin,etc,lib,share,<whatever>
>}

I would also like to support the use of /opt for partner repository packages.
This makes clear separation and it is anyhow defined in FHS.

Stephan, I think /opt structure is actually separated on top level, therefore
you have:
/opt/<xyz>
/etc/opt/<xyz>
/var/opt/<xyz>

More info is available here:
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES

(or http://tinyurl.com/fhs-opt)

Regards,
Luka

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:54 PM
"Brian Thomason"
 
Default Including shared libraries in a package

We certainly encourage the use of /opt with our vendors, and some do use it.* Others don't, mainly for the same reason they ship their own libraries - one build for all platforms.* Getting them to change it for Ubuntu means getting them to change it for all their builds.* Some can be talked into this easier than others.


Others, like Alfresco, use the paths they do to make integration easier. (i.e. with Tomcat)

Point taken though, and we will continue to try to get our vendors to use /opt when possible.

Bet regards,


Brian

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Luka Renko <lure@ubuntu.com> wrote:

On Thursday 08 January 2009 09:23:50 Stephan Hermann wrote:

> To be honest, I use some third party non-open-source apps from those

> vendors and even when I don't like their politics sometimes, I do

> appreciate when they do not install their libs under /usr/*

>

> I do like the way of installing those apps and with their needed libs

> (I do understand why they need sometimes different libs then we are

> shipping) under

> * * * * /opt/<vendor>/<application>-<version>/{bin,etc,lib,share,<whatever>

>}



I would also like to support the use of /opt for partner repository packages.

This makes clear separation and it is anyhow defined in FHS.



Stephan, I think /opt structure is actually separated on top level, therefore

you have:

/opt/<xyz>

/etc/opt/<xyz>

/var/opt/<xyz>



More info is available here:

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES



(or http://tinyurl.com/fhs-opt)



Regards,

Luka



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Old 01-09-2009, 06:33 AM
Stephan Hermann
 
Default Including shared libraries in a package

Hi Luka,


On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:45:37 +0100
Luka Renko <lure@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On Thursday 08 January 2009 09:23:50 Stephan Hermann wrote:
> > To be honest, I use some third party non-open-source apps from those
> > vendors and even when I don't like their politics sometimes, I do
> > appreciate when they do not install their libs under /usr/*
> >
> > I do like the way of installing those apps and with their needed
> > libs (I do understand why they need sometimes different libs then
> > we are shipping) under
> > /opt/<vendor>/<application>-<version>/{bin,etc,lib,share,<whatever>
> >}
>
> I would also like to support the use of /opt for partner repository
> packages. This makes clear separation and it is anyhow defined in FHS.
>
> Stephan, I think /opt structure is actually separated on top level,
> therefore you have:
> /opt/<xyz>
> /etc/opt/<xyz>
> /var/opt/<xyz>

Yes but as always, sometimes it's easier for lazy admin to follow her
own standards ,-)

But yes, FHS declares it from the toplevel..but I have to admit, that
most third parties don't follow the FHS way, not with their standard
tarballs nore with the packages they sometimes distribute.

Therefore it's already an improvement when they don't clutter the
standard system with their stuff.

Regards,

sh

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