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Old 11-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Pedro Bessa
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

Hi Ubuntu-desktop,



I can change Firefox in any way. I can position, edit,
remove and add any interface element however I think is useful to
the others. So I created two add-ons.*https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/addon-tools-in-app-button/*and*https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ubiquity-in-awesomebar/

I reported many bugs to Ubuntu.

To make you patch them, I need to convince you that the bug is so
important that you need to work, which is very hard.

To make me patch them, I need to convince you that the bug is
important, otherwise the patch won't be approved, which is hard,
then I need to patch the bug, which is hard, then I need you to
approve the code, which is hard, so it's triple hard.

To develop an app, I need to code my work and others will see my
name, rate it high, install it lots, congratulate me by e-mail,
recognize my work, which it's fun, then I need your approval to
the Ubuntu Software Store and you put a huge effort in it, you
want more apps, which it's fun, then I show you since the app's
popular, the bug is important and according to xkcd, I'm
correcting a person on the internet, it's an important task, which
it's fun, so it's triple fun.

The Unity API is minimal.*https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI*I can't position, I can't
edit, I can't remove and I can't add anything.

You said you don't want customizeability (I mean, you make unity
have unmodifiable defaults) and you said you want more apps (I
mean, you put a huge effort in the Ubuntu Software Store), but
these two things are a contradication, because *if we can't do
anything, why should we develop apps for you*?

Plus, Firefox writes tutorials that start from
overview, allow to go in-depth, have examples and I think Ubuntu
should do that too.



Best regards,

Pedro Bessa



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Old 11-18-2011, 07:14 PM
Alexander Etter
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

On Nov 18, 2011, at 14:45, Pedro Bessa <pedbessa@gmail.com> wrote:







Hi Ubuntu-desktop,



I can change Firefox in any way. I can position, edit,
remove and add any interface element however I think is useful to
the others. So I created two add-ons.*https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/addon-tools-in-app-button/*and*https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ubiquity-in-awesomebar/

I reported many bugs to Ubuntu.

To make you patch them, I need to convince you that the bug is so
important that you need to work, which is very hard.

To make me patch them, I need to convince you that the bug is
important, otherwise the patch won't be approved, which is hard,
then I need to patch the bug, which is hard, then I need you to
approve the code, which is hard, so it's triple hard.

To develop an app, I need to code my work and others will see my
name, rate it high, install it lots, congratulate me by e-mail,
recognize my work, which it's fun, then I need your approval to
the Ubuntu Software Store and you put a huge effort in it, you
want more apps, which it's fun, then I show you since the app's
popular, the bug is important and according to xkcd, I'm
correcting a person on the internet, it's an important task, which
it's fun, so it's triple fun.

The Unity API is minimal.*https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI*I can't position, I can't
edit, I can't remove and I can't add anything.

You said you don't want customizeability (I mean, you make unity
have unmodifiable defaults) and you said you want more apps (I
mean, you put a huge effort in the Ubuntu Software Store), but
these two things are a contradication, because *if we can't do
anything, why should we develop apps for you*?

Plus, Firefox writes tutorials that start from
overview, allow to go in-depth, have examples and I think Ubuntu
should do that too.



Best regards,

Pedro Bessa



I am glad I found this email. I can relate to it in many ways. I've tried to get involved in developing Ubuntu, but nobody has reached out. 11.10 is so bad on my machine I reverted to 10.04. I never liked Unity, it's silly and implies heavy use of the mouse. I want to use the keyboard to navigate everything.*And I like firefox too.Just my thoughts on this matter; I don't intend to start a war but a thoughtful discussion if anything.Alexander
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Manish Sinha
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

> I am glad I found this email. I can relate to it in many ways. I've tried to get involved in developing Ubuntu, but nobody has reached out. 11.10 is so bad on my machine I reverted to 10.04. I never liked Unity, it's silly and implies heavy use of the mouse. I want to use the keyboard to navigate everything.



I use Unity only with keyboard and not with mouse and it is more keyboard friendly than the old gnome panel.


You probably need to learn the keyboard shortcuts before making such statements like unity usage needs heavy use of mouse.

The keyboard cheat sheet is available on askubuntu


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Manish

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Old 11-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Manish Sinha
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

> The Unity API is minimal.*https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI*I can't position, I can't edit, I can't remove and I can't add anything.



You are comparing a very mature and years old product Firefox with a very recent app called Unity.


I am not a Unity dev but I would personally prefer that they put more efforts in making Unity more stable and smooth than adding customization options and making the path towards breaking unity more easier.


> You said you don't want customizeability (I mean, you make unity have unmodifiable defaults) and you said you want more apps (I mean, you put a huge effort in the Ubuntu Software Store), but these two things are a contradication, because *if we can't do anything,



It isn't contradiction. Think about it, write an app which makes a beautiful UI for editing preferences already exposed by Unity. Put it in software center.


Plus non customization doesn't mean it is contradiction to app development. If you are writing a word processor app or a media player app how does it matter that for that app to run Unity needs to be more customizable?



> why should we develop apps for you*?


What do you mean by we? It can be reworded as "why should *I* write apps for you". Plus I don't know where we are going with this *you* and *us* mentality.


> Plus, Firefox writes tutorials that start from overview, allow to go in-depth, have examples and I think Ubuntu should do that too


developer.ubuntu.com is aimed towards that


-

Manish

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Old 11-18-2011, 09:36 PM
Alexander
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Manish Sinha <manishsinha@ubuntu.com> wrote:


> The Unity API is minimal.*https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI*I can't position, I can't edit, I can't remove and I can't add anything.




You are comparing a very mature and years old product Firefox with a very recent app called Unity.


I am not a Unity dev but I would personally prefer that they put more efforts in making Unity more stable and smooth than adding customization options and making the path towards breaking unity more easier.



> You said you don't want customizeability (I mean, you make unity have unmodifiable defaults) and you said you want more apps (I mean, you put a huge effort in the Ubuntu Software Store), but these two things are a contradication, because *if we can't do anything,




It isn't contradiction. Think about it, write an app which makes a beautiful UI for editing preferences already exposed by Unity. Put it in software center.


Plus non customization doesn't mean it is contradiction to app development. If you are writing a word processor app or a media player app how does it matter that for that app to run Unity needs to be more customizable?




> why should we develop apps for you*?


What do you mean by we? It can be reworded as "why should *I* write apps for you". Plus I don't know where we are going with this *you* and *us* mentality.


> Plus, Firefox writes tutorials that start from overview, allow to go in-depth, have examples and I think Ubuntu should do that too


developer.ubuntu.com is aimed towards that


-

Manish

*I did not say "needs," distinct from implies. Manish you seem defensive rather than helpful. Where can I get involved without directing me to developer.ubuntu.com or providing me suggestions? Or ask me questions to help you answer my questions?

Make love not war.
Alexander
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:02 PM
Manish Sinha
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

> *I did not say "needs," distinct from implies.

Okay how does it even imply heavy usage of mouse? Personal experiences don't make univeral truths. It just implies that the person has not tried finding the keyboard shortcuts


> Manish you seem defensive rather than helpful.

Sorry. I have stopped sugar coating my replies. I prefer being blunt and to the point.


Unhelpful? Providng links to to developer.ubuntu.com is unhelpful? Or pointing out that the unity keyboard shortcut cheat sheet is available on askubuntu means being unhelpful? Then what is the meaning of helpful?



> Make love not war


I think the best way to make war is bringing *us* and *you* in the discussion. That is exactly what I opposed in my reply. Dunno which other war statement you referring to.


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Manish

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Old 11-18-2011, 10:02 PM
Bryce Harrington
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 05:36:04PM -0500, Alexander wrote:
> Where can I get involved without directing me to developer.ubuntu.com
> or providing me suggestions?

Hi, this mailing list isn't really about development of Unity but more
focused on the overall desktop integration. For Unity-specific
mailing lists and IRC channels, see:

http://unity.ubuntu.com/contact-us/

Bryce

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Old 11-18-2011, 10:11 PM
Alexander
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Manish Sinha <manishsinha@ubuntu.com> wrote:



> *I did not say "needs," distinct from implies.

Okay how does it even imply heavy usage of mouse? Personal experiences don't make univeral truths. It just implies that the person has not tried finding the keyboard shortcuts




> Manish you seem defensive rather than helpful.

Sorry. I have stopped sugar coating my replies. I prefer being blunt and to the point.



Unhelpful? Providng links to to developer.ubuntu.com is unhelpful? Or pointing out that the unity keyboard shortcut cheat sheet is available on askubuntu means being unhelpful? Then what is the meaning of helpful?




> Make love not war


I think the best way to make war is bringing *us* and *you* in the discussion. That is exactly what I opposed in my reply. Dunno which other war statement you referring to.


-

Manish

I apologize for the confusion. By unhelpful I refer to the tone of your replies. Maybe blunt and to the point is your style, sorry. You're very defensive, argumentative and coming off as belligerent.

Again, I'm sorry.
--
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:39 PM
Manish Sinha
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

> You're very defensive, argumentative and coming off as belligerent


I never knew reply to an aggressive mail is called defensive reply.


Anyway I hope you got all your replies and all the questions were answered.


By the way thanks for personal attacks. I won't reply back the same way.


-

Manish

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Old 11-19-2011, 02:10 PM
Jo-Erlend Schinstad
 
Default ubuntu lacks ideas, firefox is full of ideas

Den 18. nov. 2011 21:14, skrev Alexander Etter:
I am glad I found this email. I can relate to it in many ways. I've
tried to get involved in developing Ubuntu, but nobody has reached
out. 11.10 is so bad on my machine I reverted to 10.04. I never liked
Unity, it's silly and implies heavy use of the mouse. I want to use
the keyboard to navigate everything.

And I like firefox too.
Just my thoughts on this matter; I don't intend to start a war but a
thoughtful discussion if anything.

Alexander


You should ask more questions. The thing I like the most about Unity, is
how efficient it is to use without a mouse. I nearly only use the mouse
for web these days. There are keyboard shortcuts for nearly everything.
There are a few I would've wanted, such as using alt+num to choose
between workspaces in the switcher, and between windows in super+w
instead of using arrow keys, but since there are other keyboard
shortcuts available, such as alt+ctrl+arrows, and shift-alt+ctrl+arrows
to move windows between workspaces, it's not very annoying.


I would advise you to look for answers the next time you get frustrated
by something, instead of just reinstalling the operating system, which
is a fairly radical choice.


Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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