I would like to welcome further feedback on the proposal to move back to Rhythmbox here. Thanks in advance for your input.
One other discussion points during the session was to have to support
the mono bindings in a LTS version which will be supported for 5 years,
the cost benefit seems high seeing the small number of applications
keeping mono on the CD.
Note that the etherpad got "spammed" after the session with comments and
some people blogged over those comments as if they were part of the
discussion at UDS which was not the case
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11-08-2011, 12:02 PM
Chow Loong Jin
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
On 08/11/2011 19:00, Sebastien Bacher wrote:
> One other discussion points during the session was to have to support the mono
> bindings in a LTS version which will be supported for 5 years, the cost benefit
> seems high seeing the small number of applications keeping mono on the CD.
So we're booting mono from main as well now?
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11-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Owas Lone
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
I really like banshee UI more than Rhytmbox but the lining stops
there. It crashes after every 3 songs, takes a lifetime to load and
eats up resources. Having rhythmbox as default would be nice.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Chow Loong Jin <hyperair@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 08/11/2011 19:00, Sebastien Bacher wrote:
>> One other discussion points during the session was to have to support the mono
>> bindings in a LTS version which will be supported for 5 years, the cost benefit
>> seems high seeing the small number of applications keeping mono on the CD.
>
> So we're booting mono from main as well now?
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Loong Jin
>
>
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>
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11-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Chow Loong Jin
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
On 08/11/2011 21:19, Owas Lone wrote:
> I really like banshee UI more than Rhytmbox but the lining stops
> there. It crashes after every 3 songs, takes a lifetime to load and
> eats up resources. Having rhythmbox as default would be nice.
http://banshee.fm/contribute/file-bugs/
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11-08-2011, 12:45 PM
Owas Lone
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Chow Loong Jin <hyperair@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 08/11/2011 21:19, Owas Lone wrote:
>> I really like banshee UI more than Rhytmbox but the lining stops
>> there. It crashes after every 3 songs, takes a lifetime to load and
>> eats up resources. Having rhythmbox as default would be nice.
>
> http://banshee.fm/contribute/file-bugs/
>
There, I don't need to file them again. Don't feel offended, I'm just
citing my preference for an app as a user. I'd love Banshee to become
more stable and consume less resources but unfortunately right now it
does not do that. So Rhythmbox is clearly a better choice for me.
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11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Chow Loong Jin
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
On 08/11/2011 21:45, Owas Lone wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Chow Loong Jin <hyperair@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> On 08/11/2011 21:19, Owas Lone wrote:
>>> I really like banshee UI more than Rhytmbox but the lining stops
>>> there. It crashes after every 3 songs, takes a lifetime to load and
>>> eats up resources. Having rhythmbox as default would be nice.
>>
>> http://banshee.fm/contribute/file-bugs/
>>
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/767030
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/396268
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/582743
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/591150
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/591150
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/747625
>
> There, I don't need to file them again. Don't feel offended, I'm just
> citing my preference for an app as a user. I'd love Banshee to become
> more stable and consume less resources but unfortunately right now it
> does not do that. So Rhythmbox is clearly a better choice for me.
>
I'm taking this off-list before it goes further off-topic.
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11-08-2011, 02:09 PM
olivier dufour
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
Hello,
I am a banshee developer (not a maintainer).I have answer to few point outside and someone said to me to go on this mailing list to show our answerI see few arguments against banshee that I will try to answer:
- Stability: Imo, RB is more stable but banshee has more features which bring bugs as always. We are working very hard to fix as many bugs as we can to be more stable.If you take a look to release, you will see that a lot of bugs are closed foreach cycle. And some bugs come from outside (gstreamer, GCONF,...)
- GTK3 migration/ custom widget & theme: Banshee use a custom widget named ListView to replace TreeView in order to have better performance when scrolling in big list. We have migrate it and all the code to GTK3 but we are stuck on a bug on gtk#. I am working on it currently to fix it.
- startup time:*A bug is open and it is seems to be fault of ubuntu1 extention :*https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650350
- I heard that you apply a lot of patch for integration but I need more information to answer to it. Banshee have a extention system very powerfull. So I guess we can move that things in extention to reduce the amount of patch.
- issue with ARM arch: I do not understand that point because Xamarin business model is based on mobile and work with ARM and we have no bug open for that. I know that some people used it and do not encounter any issues.
- Banshee team is very reactive and add a lot of new features with each cycle. For example in last cycle we add Genre/Year filter and DVD support which was both waited by a lot of user.
Anyway, if you have question about what we are working on and what is priority to be back in ubuntu, you can contact us on the mailing list (banshee-list@gnome.org*or*banshee-devel-list@gnome.org) or on irc(#banshee).
regards,Olivier Dufour
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11-08-2011, 02:28 PM
Sebastien Bacher
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
Le 08/11/2011 14:02, Chow Loong Jin a écrit :
So we're booting mono from main as well now?
Hi,
No, for one thing main and supported are different set of sources, we
can have things in main which are not officially supported for the LTS.
We also didn't take any decision on the topic but if mono is having low
traction in the linux desktop world nowadays (it was pointed at UDS that
we don't see a lot of new projects using mono since f-spot, banshee and
tomboy, most new GNOME projects seems to go for vala rather for example)
the cost of supporting it officially for 5 years might be higher than
the benefits, it's not a made decision of any sort but a topic to
discuss and take in consideration there.
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11-08-2011, 02:45 PM
Sebastien Bacher
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
Le 07/11/2011 23:47, Jason Warner a écrit :
I would like to welcome further feedback on the proposal to move back to Rhythmbox here. Thanks in advance for your input.
Hey,
So after some short replies to other emails there and some thinking let
me summarize some of the things I think we should consider
Small comments before starting, let's not turn the discuss on each one
favorite bugs, we could have the same non productive rant on rhythmbox
or any other software, we should rather focus on the user experience and
the technical details.
I've talked about several people in different Ubuntu teams and some
users about banshee at UDS, things which came often about the oneiric
version:
- it's slow to start
- it hangs often
- it claims to handle videos but the video supports is not working well
and that reflects on the product, we should rather turn it off by
default if we can
- it's buggy
Reading some of the comments and replies on the lists some of the issues
are due to external factors (i.e U1, gconf, etc), that's not really a
justification for shipping a buggy product though. The complain there is
not against upstream but as a distribution we should make sure that
things we ship are working, saying "banshee is not working but it's not
a banshee issue, it's gconf buggy" isn't satisfactory, we should have
red flags raised before release and get such issues tracked.
Those quality issues are not specific and different Ubuntu team are
making steps this cycle to assure we address those quality problems for
the LTS, I would be interested if anyone from the banshee maintainers
have plan or interest to work in that direction as well and to make sure
that banshee doesn't get broken by its own bugs, u1, gconf or whatever
other things it might use? Is there any way we could measure start
speed, resources usage, stability etc and aim at higher quality for the
media player?
It's hard to measure quality and to figure if banshee has been really
slow and unstable for Oneiric users, how much of that is due to those
few "known issues" and if we only heard from unlucky users, it would be
nice if the Qa team could get some statistic from the bugs trend for
banshee in natty and oneiric, Pedro do you think you could work on that?
Out of the quality issues, some other things we might to consider there:
- how much do we want to support mono for the LTS
- CD space
- theming (the custom widgets in banshee have been pointed as creating
theming issues)
- GTK2 against GTK3, staying on GTK2 is an issue, landing new bindings
and porting a non trivial application to those in a LTS cycle doesn't
seem ideal either (no blame there but nothing is perfect from the start,
we are still fighting pygobject bugs for things that landed for a while
for example)
- will the new version still use gconf or gsettings? what is the state
of gsettings in mono?
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11-08-2011, 04:01 PM
Tobin Davis
Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
> > > * Our ARM team says that the current versions still work rather
> > > poorly on ARM.
> >
> > I saw one bug about that, also mentioned in my previous post, which
> > is being worked on, but that's about it. What other issues are there?
>
> This needs input from the ARM team, I CC'ed some of them.
I am seeing the same banshee issue on all supported arm
platforms here (BeagleXM, iMX53 Quickstart, Pandaboard, Toshiba AC100).
This is with a fresh Oneiric (11.10) install. I have yet to root cause
the issue, but I have a workaround available as a patch attached to bug
857299. I have personally spent several weeks trying to debug this
further. The fact that others can get it working on android or on some
system not supported here doesn't surprise me. I might be able to get
it working if I do an upgrade from Natty->Oneiric if I mess around with
it long enough.
I also keep hearing that people are having problems getting arm
platforms to work with. Do we need to provide a list of where to buy
supported systems? They are very affordable (I personally have bought 2
omap4 pandaboards, 1 imx53 quickstart, and 1 omap3 beagle this year). I
also own a Nook Color, and will be buying a Nook Tablet when they start
shipping. And I don't get reimbursed for these (by choice - just to be
clear).
Last cycle, the issue with banshee on arm was specific to Panda and mono
in that the mono that shipped didn't support SMP on Arm:
/* SWP on ARM is very similar to XCHG on x86. Doesn't lock the
* bus because there are no SMP ARM machines. If/when there are,
* this code will likely need to be updated. */
This took several weeks to try and fix. In the end, we disabled
multi-threading on arm. The result was that banshee ran, but slower
than sap in January (July for you southern hemisphere folk).
This cycle, 12.04, we are pushing out our first LTS on arm. And it may
very well be based on enabling hard-float which has not been enabled
before. Mono is severely broken in Debian with their hard float
implementation. I have little doubt we will see similar issues.
Whatever the final decision is, I will do my best to test it on all
supported platforms. Just know that banshee easily takes 1/3 of all of
my time on arm desktop, especially when there is a problem and I have to
root cause the issue.
Tobin Davis
QA Tester
Ubuntu Arm team
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Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04
