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Old 01-18-2011, 05:00 PM
Didier Roche
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

Hey fellow desktop lovers,

Here is a notice on what we decided during the Rally: we drop session
saving from natty in Ubuntu. The disablement is already effective in
natty.

== What was the option about? ==

The option was about launching on session start, the applications which
were running when you close your session, and getting them in the exact
same state than when they were closed.

It was available through gnome-session-properties in a dedicated tab. It
was possible to choose there to save right now all opened applications
or to do that everytime on session close.


== Why removing it? ==

We saw a lot of side effects during the previous cycles when we started
to use multiples session (like in UNE, desktop session and such):
- the saved applications contains the list of all running application,
including the window manager, the panel and such… Consequently, we got a
lot of patches and hack to avoid saving mutter, compiz, metacity, and
the panels in lucid and maverick, so that when someone wanted to start a
session, the required components from the session will indeed been
launched instead of the saved one.
- We tried last week to change the desktop order but it went quite wrong
with a lot of settings and we had to revert it.
- In addition to that, session saving never really worked with all the
default applications we have (for instance, openoffice, firefox…) and
even with supported applications like gedit: the opened documents
weren't started again, making the feature quite useless.


== And now? ==

As there is no strong intend to solve that in the short term and we need
to focus on other parts of the desktop area first, we decided than
instead of shipping a broken feature (there was already a lot of side
effects people using this feature encountered that cycle, and time to
debug it, to find it was coming from a saved session was quite
expensive…) to unable it for natty. With that, it will enable us to
ensure a first class experience in natty on the ubuntu desktop, without
getting a lot of upgrade failures and people rebooting getting a blank
background.

I still personally think that this feature can be really good addition
to Ubuntu default experience if we can take time to make it very
polished as well as working for most of - if not all - major
applications (at least, all applications by default on the CD). If
someone wants to jump in this hard and long task, he's more than welcome
to discuss it either on this mailing list or in the #ubuntu-desktop
channel on freenode.

Thanks for your attention,
Didier Roche



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Old 01-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Vishnoo
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On Tue, 2011-01-18 at 18:00 +0100, Didier Roche wrote:
> Hey fellow desktop lovers,
>
> I still personally think that this feature can be really good addition
> to Ubuntu default experience if we can take time to make it very
> polished as well as working for most of - if not all - major
> applications (at least, all applications by default on the CD). If
> someone wants to jump in this hard and long task, he's more than welcome
> to discuss it either on this mailing list or in the #ubuntu-desktop
> channel on freenode.
>
> Thanks for your attention,
> Didier Roche
>

Hi,
Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?

I know you'd be busy, but if there is no bug filed/wiki setup, this
"hope someone fixes it" mail might get lost in the mailing list archives
alone and we might have lesser chances of this getting fixed by someone.
[if there is no bug already, maybe just copy-paste your mail :-) ]

--
Cheers,
Vish


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Old 01-21-2011, 03:16 PM
Martin Pitt
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:
> Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?

I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.
You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,
undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more
interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or
could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a
half-baked misfeature.

For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.

Martin

--
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Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org)

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Old 01-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Rick Spencer
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 16:16 +0100, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:
> > Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?
>
> I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.
> You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,
> undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more
> interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or
> could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a
> half-baked misfeature.
>
> For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.
Well, there is suspend. Hibernate does not exactly work perfectly for
many peole.

Cheers, Rick



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Old 01-21-2011, 06:14 PM
Bryce Harrington
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 07:36:55AM -0800, Rick Spencer wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 16:16 +0100, Martin Pitt wrote:
> > Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:
> > > Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?
> >
> > I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.
> > You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,
> > undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more
> > interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or
> > could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a
> > half-baked misfeature.
> >
> > For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.
> Well, there is suspend. Hibernate does not exactly work perfectly for
> many peole.

Nor does suspend... ;-)

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Old 01-22-2011, 08:09 AM
Jacky Alcine
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On 01/21/2011 01:14 PM, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 07:36:55AM -0800, Rick Spencer wrote:
>> On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 16:16 +0100, Martin Pitt wrote:
>>> Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:
>>>> Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?
>>> I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.
>>> You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,
>>> undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more
>>> interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or
>>> could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a
>>> half-baked misfeature.
>>>
>>> For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.
>> Well, there is suspend. Hibernate does not exactly work perfectly for
>> many peole.
> Nor does suspend... ;-)
>
Is there a way of flashing the loaded applications in memory and all of
those handles to disk and just loading it back?

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Old 01-22-2011, 09:54 AM
"frederik.nnaji@gmail.com"
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 16:16, Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com> wrote:


Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:

> Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?



I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.

You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,

undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more

interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or

could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a

half-baked misfeature.

What's wrong with wanting the window positions memorized?*

For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.

*yes, one would want to think so, but then again this is strongly hardware dependent, and therefore unreliable.

As others state here already, "Hibernate" is about the most unreliable feature to avail in Ubuntu, closely followed by "Suspend."
I'd opt for the window position thingy.

And i'd use an engine such as "used with" from Zeitgeist to make it happen.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:08 AM
Milan Bouchet-Valat
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

Le samedi 22 janvier 2011 03:09 -0500, Jacky Alcine a crit :
> Is there a way of flashing the loaded applications in memory and all of
> those handles to disk and just loading it back?
There is CryoPID, but it doesn't work (yet?) with X applications, and
doesn't seem to have gotten much support. Could be a nice solution, in
an ideal world...

http://cryopid.berlios.de/



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Old 01-22-2011, 12:30 PM
Jacky Alcine
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On 01/22/2011 06:08 AM, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote:
> Le samedi 22 janvier 2011 03:09 -0500, Jacky Alcine a crit :
>> Is there a way of flashing the loaded applications in memory and all of
>> those handles to disk and just loading it back?
> There is CryoPID, but it doesn't work (yet?) with X applications, and
> doesn't seem to have gotten much support. Could be a nice solution, in
> an ideal world...
>
> http://cryopid.berlios.de/
>
>
It's probably X's fault to begin with. Maybe the idea of GNOME session
saving dropping in 11.04 is to support session saving under Wayland?

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Old 01-24-2011, 05:58 AM
Christopher James Halse Rogers
 
Default GNOME session saving dropped in natty

On Sat, 2011-01-22 at 03:09 -0500, Jacky Alcine wrote:
> On 01/21/2011 01:14 PM, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 07:36:55AM -0800, Rick Spencer wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 16:16 +0100, Martin Pitt wrote:
> >>> Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]:
> >>>> Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow?
> >>> I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect.
> >>> You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents,
> >>> undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more
> >>> interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or
> >>> could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a
> >>> half-baked misfeature.
> >>>
> >>> For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate.
> >> Well, there is suspend. Hibernate does not exactly work perfectly for
> >> many peole.
> > Nor does suspend... ;-)
> >
> Is there a way of flashing the loaded applications in memory and all of
> those handles to disk and just loading it back?
>

You've pretty much just described “hibernate”. When it works, that is
☺.
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