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Old 01-10-2008, 04:42 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

Flávio Martins ha scritto:
> - There is however the transmission-cli package which provides a console
> client.

I guess this is not really needed... we have some other packages
available to be used from the command line. (ctorrent for instance)

>
> Do you know if anybody is looking at the launchpad bugs for this one?
>

The MOTU-P2P takes care of every P2P-related package, so feel free to
jump in if you wanna help out. (e.g with transmission)
I would like to create a good cooperation with the transmission
maintainers from Debian having the package synced at every revision
pop-up as gnome-bt does at the moment. Do you think is possible? Plus is
Debian active in maintaining this package?


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Old 01-10-2008, 04:47 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

Flávio Martins ha scritto:
> Take in mind that the .desktop file was previously removed from the
gnome-bt
> package.

Not really right. Upstream alwais shipped a .desktop file but it wasnt
really clean and had problems to show up. Some revisions ago, I fixed it
in Debian together with the introduction of a brand new icon from upstream.


Andrea

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Old 01-10-2008, 04:48 PM
"Jo-Erlend Schinstad"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

Yes, it would be very interesting to know how many actually uses
gnome-btdownload. I don't know anyone. Most people I know, have it
installed, but uses other, more modern clients, like Azureus and
Utorrent using wine. It's quite common to seed for a long time, and
it's common to have alot of torrent files. Gnome-btdownload imposes a
limit to how many torrents you can have open, because each torrent
represents its own client instance and its own window. Of course, you
could dedicate a few workspaces to bit torrent, but that's not pretty.
And you'll have to manually open all torrent files each time you log
in. I see _no_ reason why we should have an application as default,
that people doesn't use. We should have sensible defaults, not
defaults that everyone has to replace when they first install the
system.

Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Old 01-10-2008, 04:54 PM
"Flávio Martins"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

On Jan 10, 2008 5:42 PM, Andrea Veri <bluekuja@ubuntu.com> wrote:


The MOTU-P2P takes care of every P2P-related package, so feel free to
jump in if you wanna help out. (e.g with transmission)
I would like to create a good cooperation with the transmission

maintainers from Debian having the package synced at every revision
pop-up as gnome-bt does at the moment. Do you think is possible? Plus is
Debian active in maintaining this package?



Debian maintainers are active. A new upstream version manages to be packaged on the day it is released. They seem very interested in transmission. I'm sure we can cooperate with them and manage to sync the package when needed.



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Old 01-10-2008, 04:59 PM
"Jo-Erlend Schinstad"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

On 10/01/2008, Martin Ahnelöv <operagasten@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> tor 2008-01-10 klockan 03:47 +0100 skrev Jo-Erlend Schinstad:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On 08/01/2008, Flávio Martins <xhaker@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client
> > > with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled."
> > >
> > > I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages
> > > gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk.
> >
> > I'm all for it.
> >
> > > I think Transmission is very user friendly, and currently is the perfect
> > > choice of BitTorrent client for the Gnome Desktop.
> > > The Gtk+ client has a well-designed and simple user interface.
> >
> > Yes, it's perfect for the Gnome Desktop, providing the feeling users
> > are looking for in a bit torrent application, while not complicating
> > things.
> [snip]
> > We do need something better than
> > gnome-btdownload and this is by far the best candidate I've seen.
>
> I would actually argue that if we would replace gnome-btdownload, it
> should be with Deluge [1], and not Transmission.
>
> Why?
> 1. It's developed in Python with PyGTK.
> 2. it's aimed intended to
> be The Choice of bittorrent client on the gnome desktop, and follows
> the gnome HIG.
> 3. Very active and fast development. Monthly release cycle.
> 4. Deluge is very modular, and every feature is it's own plugin: You can
> have something very simple that "just works", or you could use a
> fullblown feature-set that's almost comparable to Azureus.
>
> [1] http://deluge-torrent.org/
>
> But just for the record, I don't think we need anything else than
> gnome-btdownload.
>
> Gasten

Well, I do see your point. However, the number of features isn't the
most important aspect, I think. Many of the more modern clients have
alot of different settings, that people also doesn't use. What I liked
best about Transmission, was the small number of sensible
configuration options. Deluge, for instance, uses configuration GUI
space to ask if you want to password protect the system tray icon. Who
uses that? It's just annoying. Fine, if people want those advanced
options, nothing is keeping them from installing Azureus or something
like that, but they certainly aren't normal users.

One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we
want to have gnome-btdownload. Because it's there? We could use that
as a point in any argument; We don't have to fix this.. People have
always managed without it.

Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Old 01-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto:
> One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we
> want to have gnome-btdownload.
>

Maybe because it fits fine into the GNOME Desktop? Maybe because it's
easy and simple to use, it doesn't have tons of different configurations
and does the work for a newbie, who just joined Ubuntu (e.g right click
on a torrent and the trick is done). I would like to remember you that
the torrent protocol is not well-known and usually a great number of
people prefer to use other applications like Amule and so on. What do
you think?


Andrea


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Old 01-10-2008, 05:18 PM
"Jo-Erlend Schinstad"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

On 10/01/2008, Andrea Veri <bluekuja@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto:
> > One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we
> > want to have gnome-btdownload.
> >
>
> Maybe because it fits fine into the GNOME Desktop? Maybe because it's
> easy and simple to use, it doesn't have tons of different configurations
> and does the work for a newbie, who just joined Ubuntu (e.g right click
> on a torrent and the trick is done). I would like to remember you that
> the torrent protocol is not well-known and usually a great number of
> people prefer to use other applications like Amule and so on. What do
> you think?
>
>
> Andrea


Like you, I think it's important to have a usable client. Transmission
is not any more complicated than gnome-btdownload, but it's usable for
more advanced users too. Transmission works just the same way, except
you have one window for all torrents. The number of configuration
options is low, and sensible. I also got the impression that it's
faster, but that's just an impression.

I asked in #Ubuntu on freenode now, if anyone could recommend a bit
torrent client for Ubuntu. People actually recommended all the other
clients, except gnome-btdownload and Transmission. I thought that was
interesting. I then asked in #Ubuntu-OffTopic how people felt about
replacing gnone-btdownload, and the response was a unanimous yes.

Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Old 01-10-2008, 05:33 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto:
> I then asked in #Ubuntu-OffTopic how people felt about
> replacing gnone-btdownload, and the response was a unanimous yes.
>


Not nice to hear from a Gnome-bt's maintainer but anyway some of the
points you reported above can be considered fair enough.


Andrea


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Old 01-10-2008, 05:36 PM
"Flávio Martins"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

On Jan 10, 2008 6:18 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schinstad@gmail.com> wrote:


I asked in #Ubuntu on freenode now, if anyone could recommend a bit
torrent client for Ubuntu. People actually recommended all the other
clients, except gnome-btdownload and Transmission. I thought that was
interesting. I then asked in #Ubuntu-OffTopic how people felt about

replacing gnone-btdownload, and the response was a unanimous yes.*
*- The interesting thing is that most tech savy people seem to prefer something that has a lot of knobs and switches. Some users probably would attribute lack of features/options to lack of quality. However the spirit of the Gnome desktop is to have just enough options and sensible defaults. I really can't recommend a client that respects it better than Transmission.

*
Flávio Martins


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Old 01-10-2008, 05:50 PM
"Jo-Erlend Schinstad"
 
Default Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default

> > Well, I do see your point. However, the number of features isn't the
> > most important aspect, I think. Many of the more modern clients have
> > alot of different settings, that people also doesn't use. What I liked
> > best about Transmission, was the small number of sensible
> > configuration options. Deluge, for instance, uses configuration GUI
> > space to ask if you want to password protect the system tray icon. Who
> > uses that? It's just annoying. [snip]
>
> Sure, it's just annoying. it's still just a option in a configuration
> file.
>
> Also, you can't decide where Transmission should save the completed
> downloads (at least not by default). That is annoying. (I can imagine
> users go "huh, where's the file?")

That's not true. You can decide that when you open the torrent file.
However, I feel that all downloads, no matter where they come from,
should go in /home/user/Downloads, but that's another issue.

> Transmission is also pretty ugly, and don't look good in the rest of the
> gnome-theme. On a related note, I closed it, and not until later I
> discovered that it was hiding in the systray and leaking bandwidth. Not
> nice.
>
> Gasten

Are you talking about the version in Gutsy or Hardy? There is a rather
significant difference. The version in Hardy has some improvements. I
agree, you should be notified when such an application is minimized to
tray and you think it's closed. However, that's just a minor bug,
which could be fixed in no time. Did you report that bug btw?

When Bit Torrent was first conceived and released, it was meant as a
way to help webservers reduce their upstream bandwidth usage. That is,
it should be similar to a normal download dialog from Internet
Explorer. However, that's not the way bit torrent is used anymore.
People use bit torrent much more like they would use eMule, Limewire,
or any other p2p application. Gnome-btdownload does not reflect this
change in behaviour. Ubuntu should make available software to fit
peoples uses, not the other way around.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --
Albert Einstein.

Jo-Erlend

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