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Martin Pitt 02-01-2009 09:02 PM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
Hello Lars,

sorry for the late reply.

Lars Wirzenius [2009-01-20 21:03 +0200]:
> I would like to explore the possiblity of including it in the default
> install for jaunty.

I would be glad to provide users with the possibility of using the
tool after upgrades. However, I'm a bit concerned about offering it by
default in a fresh standard installation, since it might be confusing
there.

Since it is quite tighly related to upgrading, would it be possible to
have update-manager offer to run it, at the time when it offers to
remove universe packages? Could this step disappear entirely and be
replaced with installation and running of cruft-remover, which would
take over removal of not-supported-any-more packages (which went to
universe), plus the other things it is doing?

Or wouldn't make this sense for some other reason?

Thanks,

Martin

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Lars Wirzenius 02-02-2009 02:18 PM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
su, 2009-02-01 kello 23:02 +0100, Martin Pitt kirjoitti:
> Lars Wirzenius [2009-01-20 21:03 +0200]:
> > I would like to explore the possiblity of including it in the default
> > install for jaunty.
>
> I would be glad to provide users with the possibility of using the
> tool after upgrades. However, I'm a bit concerned about offering it by
> default in a fresh standard installation, since it might be confusing
> there.
>
> Since it is quite tighly related to upgrading, would it be possible to
> have update-manager offer to run it, at the time when it offers to
> remove universe packages? Could this step disappear entirely and be
> replaced with installation and running of cruft-remover, which would
> take over removal of not-supported-any-more packages (which went to
> universe), plus the other things it is doing?
>
> Or wouldn't make this sense for some other reason?

Those parts of Cruft Remover that make sense to run at upgrade time will
be run by Update Manager at upgrade time. However, not all parts make
sense at that point: for example, Cruft Remover will be
finding .dpkg-old and .dpkg-new files, and those should be inspected by
the sysadmin before they are deleted. Thus, it doesn't really make sense
to have update-manager automatically delete them, in my opinion.

Since Cruft Remover is a dedicated tool, it will (eventually) be able to
handle such things in a better fashion than Update Manager. For example,
since the .dpkg-old/new files are rarely problematic, it's OK for Update
Manager to not remove them, and let users who care use Cruft Remover to
get rid of them.

Does this change your mind about installing Cruft Remover by default?


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Martin Pitt 02-23-2009 11:19 AM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
Hello Lars,

sorry for letting this slip for so long!

Lars Wirzenius [2009-02-02 17:18 +0200]:
> > > I would like to explore the possiblity of including it in the default
> > > install for jaunty.
> [...]

> Those parts of Cruft Remover that make sense to run at upgrade time will
> be run by Update Manager at upgrade time.

Aha, great to hear.

> However, not all parts make sense at that point: for example, Cruft
> Remover will be finding .dpkg-old and .dpkg-new files, and those
> should be inspected by the sysadmin before they are deleted. Thus,
> it doesn't really make sense to have update-manager automatically
> delete them, in my opinion.

I agree. On the other hand this is not really something that you must
do on your computer, since it doesn't take a significant amount of
disk space.

> Does this change your mind about installing Cruft Remover by default?

I wouldn't impose it to everyone just because of old conffiles, but it
certainly makes sense to me if you can use it for freeing a lot of
disk space, when it becomes scarce. I. e. with apt-get autoremove,
remove huge rotated log files, cleaning stuff in ~/.cache, clean old
kernels, etc. Does it do any of those? If so, then let's add it to the
desktop seed.

Thank you!

Martin

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Lars Wirzenius 02-23-2009 02:29 PM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
ma, 2009-02-23 kello 13:19 +0100, Martin Pitt kirjoitti:
> I wouldn't impose it to everyone just because of old conffiles, but it
> certainly makes sense to me if you can use it for freeing a lot of
> disk space, when it becomes scarce. I. e. with apt-get autoremove,
> remove huge rotated log files, cleaning stuff in ~/.cache, clean old
> kernels, etc. Does it do any of those? If so, then let's add it to the
> desktop seed.

Computer Janitor (nee System Cleaner, also known as Cruft Remover
*sigh*) has been removing autoremovable packages since intrepid. Also
unsupported packages. It also removes old kernels, but indirectly, as
part of removing unsupported packages. It does not touch user files;
that may be added some day, but not for jaunty.

Rotated log files should be removed by logrotate -- I'm not sure it's
worth deleting them especially, since the sysadmin supposedly wants a
specific rotation schedule. (If anything, logrotate should perhaps be
configured to keep only small amounts of logs by default, limited by
disk space usage.)


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Martin Pitt 02-23-2009 04:04 PM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
Hello Lars,

I removed system-cleaner from the archive and promoted
computer-janitor to main (since system-cleaner was in main and had a
MIR). Please add a transitional system-cleaner package to
computer-janitor, so that upgrades will work.

I added it to the desktop seed now.

Thanks!

Martin
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Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org)

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Lars Wirzenius 02-24-2009 05:44 AM

Cruft Remover (system-cleaner-gtk.deb) in the default desktop install?
 
ma, 2009-02-23 kello 18:04 +0100, Martin Pitt kirjoitti:
> I removed system-cleaner from the archive and promoted
> computer-janitor to main (since system-cleaner was in main and had a
> MIR). Please add a transitional system-cleaner package to
> computer-janitor, so that upgrades will work.

I've tested upgrades and they should work without the transitional
package, but that was before the latest set of code juggling. I'll do
some more testing.

> I added it to the desktop seed now.

Thanks!



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