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Old 10-30-2008, 08:15 AM
"Odysseus Flappington"
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

On 30/10/2008, Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com> wrote:
Hi,


On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:38 PM, A. Walton <awalton@gnome.org> wrote:
> I personally have no problem seeing Ubuntu ship a few default
> templates in /etc/skel/. From my GNOME point of view, I think it'd be

> a healthy thing to do, and I think distros have the good sense to
> manage what they put in there, even though it's not "recommended".


This is the problem right here. I think it's pretty uncontestable, for

the reasons that Michael Meeks states on the Gnome mailing list
thread, that having some templates in ~/Templates by default would
improve enormously the user experience. So, it's a valid bug. But,
it's been closed by the Ubuntu developer because we have one Gnome

developer, not even the nautilus maintainers, with a loud voice on a
thread on the Gnome mailing list saying it's a bad idea because he
doesn't trust distributors to do a good job to maintain a healthy list

of templates.

It seems plain to me having read the thread that the correct approach
here is for distros to take responsibility for this and ship some
templates in ~/Templates by default (whether using /etc/skel or other

technical means). It's only distros who have control over whether that
list of templates will get "cluttered" or not, so it's distros who can
keep it clean.

I think closing the bug was the wrong decision and I really hope that

it can be reconsidered as a potential feature for Ubuntu 9.04.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF


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+1

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Old 10-30-2008, 10:21 AM
"Didier Roche"
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

2008/10/30 Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com>



It seems plain to me having read the thread that the correct approach

here is for distros to take responsibility for this and ship some

templates in ~/Templates by default (whether using /etc/skel or other

technical means). It's only distros who have control over whether that

list of templates will get "cluttered" or not, so it's distros who can

keep it clean.




I think that Matthew is totally right: the responsability is on distros
to handle a correct list of templates, regarding application they
shipped and maintain it accorded to its evolution. This would provide
reasonable default which can hilight this feature for new users and
give them a clue on how they can populate the "Create Document" item.



This feature is, to my mind, very powerful, easy to use but
unfortunately unknown because of not explaining/guiding people on how
to use it.



Didier

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Old 10-30-2008, 11:17 AM
Sebastien Bacher
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

Le jeudi 30 octobre 2008 à 08:30 +0000, Matthew East a écrit :
> it's been closed by the Ubuntu developer because we have one Gnome
> developer, not even the nautilus maintainers, with a loud voice on a

Hi,

that is a wrong statement, the launchpad nautilus bug has been closed
because that's not a nautilus bug and such changes should be discussed
on a mailing list where you will get comments on and not a bug tracker.
the way to do that would be to copy some templates in the user
directory, note that doing that automatically when adding an user has
been decided against before because it's specific to GNOME and users
doing server installation don't want those template for example.

Sebastien Bacher


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Old 10-30-2008, 11:38 AM
"Mikko Ohtamaa"
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

Hi,

This is a little offtopic, but...






that is a wrong statement, the launchpad nautilus bug has been closed

because that's not a nautilus bug and such changes should be discussed

on a mailing list where you will get comments on and not a bug tracker.

the way to do that would be to copy some templates in the user

directory, note that doing that automatically when adding an user has

been decided against before because it's specific to GNOME and users

doing server installation don't want those template for example.


Could we have a different state for this kind of things in Launchpad? A lot of people get "offended" by invalid, since they assume that the bug is being ignored. For example "being discussed" with a pointer to the discussion or "finding a new home" when the bug is not against the correct product and the new one has not been decided yet.


Where could I propose this kind of thing?

-Mikko

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Old 10-30-2008, 11:42 AM
"Matthew East"
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

Sebastien,

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Sebastien Bacher <seb128@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> the launchpad nautilus bug has been closed
> because that's not a nautilus bug and such changes should be discussed
> on a mailing list where you will get comments on and not a bug tracker.
> the way to do that would be to copy some templates in the user
> directory, note that doing that automatically when adding an user has
> been decided against before because it's specific to GNOME and users
> doing server installation don't want those template for example.

I understand that the change required doesn't necessarily affect
nautilus. And I agree that the templates should not be included for a
server installation.

However, I don't agree that just because an issue requires discussion
on a mailing list, it is appropriate to mark the bug as "Invalid".
Valid bugs are frequently discussed on the lists. It's either a valid
problem, or it isn't. In this case in my previous email I was
expressing the opinion that it is a valid problem, and therefore that
the bug should not have been closed. Obviously, you're free to
disagree with that

You also seem to be suggesting that the fact that the fix to the bug
would not be in nautilus is an independent reason to close the bug. If
so, I don't agree with that either: marking a bug as invalid carries
stigma, because it implies to the reporter that the issue reported is
not a real problem, and because invalid bugs are not included in
searches. The simplest approach in such cases is simply to change the
affected source package to another one. If it is unclear what package
is affected, the "source package" box can be left blank.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

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Old 10-30-2008, 12:50 PM
Sebastien Bacher
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

Le jeudi 30 octobre 2008 à 12:42 +0000, Matthew East a écrit :
>
> However, I don't agree that just because an issue requires discussion
> on a mailing list, it is appropriate to mark the bug as "Invalid".
> Valid bugs are frequently discussed on the lists.

The bug has not been closed because it requires a discussion but because
that's not a nautilus bug and something upstream decided to not change.

Sebastien Bacher


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Old 10-30-2008, 01:22 PM
"Matthew East"
 
Default Empty "Create Document" menu

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Sebastien Bacher <seb128@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Le jeudi 30 octobre 2008 à 12:42 +0000, Matthew East a écrit :
>>
>> However, I don't agree that just because an issue requires discussion
>> on a mailing list, it is appropriate to mark the bug as "Invalid".
>> Valid bugs are frequently discussed on the lists.
>
> The bug has not been closed because it requires a discussion but because
> that's not a nautilus bug and something upstream decided to not change.

Ok! In that case, I think we're back to my original email in which I
set out why I think this issue is for distros to address, and not
upstream.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF
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