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Old 10-10-2008, 01:12 PM
Thomas Thurman
 
Default removing themes

Ysgrifennodd Brett Alton:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Jeff <web.kiddo@free.fr> wrote:
> > I use mist, even though it is fugly compared to Clearlooks, because it is
> > BLAZINGLY fast.
>
> I think the point of their argument is that you can install that from
> apt if you need it, but it shouldn't be installed by default for
> aesthetics and size reasons.

Maybe the package could install only one of them depending on the speed
of your computer.

peace

Thomas

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Old 10-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Jeff
 
Default removing themes

I think the point of their argument is that you can install that from

apt if you need it, but it shouldn't be installed by default for

aesthetics and size reasons.


...and it was quickly pointed out that the size was insignificant/negligible in this case, wasn't it? If you guys are concerned about file size on a live CD, and think that forking the binaries is not expensive, then why not focus your size optimization on something that would bring significantly more effective results?



See this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/272779



Otherwise, I don't think the themes that weigh a few kilobytes would need such attention when the second heaviest package in Ubuntu's default install isn't getting any love on the same aspect.


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Old 10-10-2008, 07:50 PM
Vincent Untz
 
Default removing themes

Le jeudi 09 octobre 2008, à 23:33 +0200, Kenneth Wimer a écrit :
> I think that if we replaced the aging themes we could, in their place, include
> a couple of interesting new ones. I think users would get much more out of
> being able to select a modern sexy theme. In this way we offer our default
> theme, accessability themes and a few beautiful, sexy themes.

Sounds like something that should be done upstream ;-)

Vincent

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Old 10-10-2008, 08:59 PM
Kenneth Wimer
 
Default removing themes

On Friday 10 October 2008 21:50:17 Vincent Untz wrote:
> Le jeudi 09 octobre 2008, à 23:33 +0200, Kenneth Wimer a écrit :
> > I think that if we replaced the aging themes we could, in their place,
> > include a couple of interesting new ones. I think users would get much
> > more out of being able to select a modern sexy theme. In this way we
> > offer our default theme, accessability themes and a few beautiful, sexy
> > themes.
>
> Sounds like something that should be done upstream ;-)

I am not sure if this is the kind of change which can start upstream. My
experience has shown that any discussion on or around legacy themeing within
a community of developers/long-time-enthusiasts ends with lots of discussion
without any real action. Sometimes it takes a distribution to stand up and
take the plunge, then everything else falls somewhat in line, eventually. I
doubt that our solution will be the long-term solution but it might just help
to start the revaluation of opinions.

Any given theme is eventually no longer desired/needed in a default desktop
selection. It is always hard to remove something which came before but if we
don't do that we lose our appeal to new users. Does mac or win ship something
like glider or crux?

As for the Mist theme, I know quite a few people who use it and really like
it. I imagine keeping one theme like this would not be an issue. Mist is
really fast and really simple so it should/could/would cover the needs of all
those who want something a bit more simple.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:20 PM
Thomas Thurman
 
Default removing themes

Ysgrifennodd Kenneth Wimer:
> I think that if we replaced the aging themes we could, in their place, include
> a couple of interesting new ones. I think users would get much more out of
> being able to select a modern sexy theme. In this way we offer our default
> theme, accessability themes and a few beautiful, sexy themes.

Do you have any appropriately-licensed beautiful, sexy themes you want
to contribute to upstream? I'm quite happy to consider them.

> I realize that the upstream issue is important but I wonder what gnome is
> thinking when they offer "glider" or "crux" as a modern theme for their
> users.

Nobody's suggested taking them out yet. If you want to suggest taking them
out, the usual way is buying the maintainers a beer^W^W^W^W^W raising a bug.

Thomas
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Mark Shuttleworth
 
Default removing themes

Thomas Thurman wrote:

Ysgrifennodd Kenneth Wimer:


I think that if we replaced the aging themes we could, in their place, include
a couple of interesting new ones. I think users would get much more out of
being able to select a modern sexy theme. In this way we offer our default
theme, accessability themes and a few beautiful, sexy themes.



Do you have any appropriately-licensed beautiful, sexy themes you want
to contribute to upstream? I'm quite happy to consider them.



I realize that the upstream issue is important but I wonder what gnome is
thinking when they offer "glider" or "crux" as a modern theme for their
users.



Nobody's suggested taking them out yet. If you want to suggest taking them
out, the usual way is buying the maintainers a beer^W^W^W^W^W raising a bug.




A beer is the solution to many problems!



I hope there's room for creative differences without ruffling feathers.
I'm determined we offer the standard GNOME theme portfolio in main, but
also keen to make sure that the initial set of themes has a consistent
look and feel.



Thomas, has there been any discussion about creating a standardised
online repo of themes, with dynamic access from the appearance manager?
Then we could highlight the standard GNOME themes there.



Mark



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Old 10-10-2008, 11:24 PM
"Wouter Stomp"
 
Default removing themes

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@canonical.com> wrote:

> Thomas, has there been any discussion about creating a standardised online
> repo of themes, with dynamic access from the appearance manager? Then we
> could highlight the standard GNOME themes there.
>

Something like Gnome-Art Next Gen would be nice to include by default,
allowing easy access to plenty of new wallpapers and themes, including
the official gnome ones. A video showcasing it is at
http://www.vimeo.com/1354516

Wouter.

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Old 10-10-2008, 11:52 PM
Thomas Thurman
 
Default removing themes

Ysgrifennodd Mark Shuttleworth:
> Thomas, has there been any discussion about creating a standardised
> online repo of themes, with dynamic access from the appearance manager?
> Then we could highlight the standard GNOME themes there.

There hasn't been (well, not that I've heard, anyway), but it's a rather
exciting idea. I suppose we could base it around apt or something, but
it seems overkill just for single themes, and besides wouldn't work very
well on non-apt distros... I'm imagining a standard CGI which you could
give a set of zipped Metacity themes and it would be able to serve any
of them up, plus generate and be able to serve an index in a standard
form:

[Gorilla]
name=Gorilla
author=Kenneth Christiansen <kenneth@gnu.org> Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>
copyright=Ximian, Inc, 2001
date=February 8, 2002
description=A port of the Gorilla theme by Jacub Steiner
preview=R0lGODlhEAAQAPcAAAAAAAQEBAUEBAcGBhwcGxwcHC UlJS4uLjs6O0JBQUZFRUpKSlJSUlNUVlRU
VFlZW11dXWNjY3V3en19fISEg4SEhI6OjY6PkaOjo7S0s7W1tc DAwMLCwsbGxcrKysnLzdTV1Nvb
297e3N/f3tzk7t7n8d/n8d7n8uTk4eXl4uPj5OPk5eTk5Obm5ufn5unp5+rq5urr6Ovr6 erq6uzs
(etc)

and would also be able to serve all parts added after a certain date,
etc. I think I may work on this this weekend, unless anyone knows of
prior art.

Thomas

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Old 10-10-2008, 11:55 PM
Thomas Thurman
 
Default removing themes

Ysgrifennodd Wouter Stomp:
> Something like Gnome-Art Next Gen would be nice to include by default,
> allowing easy access to plenty of new wallpapers and themes, including
> the official gnome ones. A video showcasing it is at
> http://www.vimeo.com/1354516

aha, so there is already something like this? Saves me the work

Thomas

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Old 10-11-2008, 11:42 AM
Mark Shuttleworth
 
Default removing themes

Wouter Stomp wrote:

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@canonical.com> wrote:



Thomas, has there been any discussion about creating a standardised online
repo of themes, with dynamic access from the appearance manager? Then we
could highlight the standard GNOME themes there.




Something like Gnome-Art Next Gen would be nice to include by default,
allowing easy access to plenty of new wallpapers and themes, including
the official gnome ones. A video showcasing it is at
http://www.vimeo.com/1354516




This looks pretty good. I'm at the GNOME Summit this week and will ask
around about having a standard online theme manager. For the moment,
let's make sure the standard GNOME themes are in a package which is
installed for upgrades. For new users, let's install the accessibility
themes and the the Ubuntu community and default themes.



Mark



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